Live sand or No
 

Making some progress on my tank. It will be a 37 gallon FOWLR. It has been
suggested by the local pet store that I use live sand. Instead of normal
fishtank sand. I have. If I put in a 5 or 6 pound cured live rock with
some other rocks that can be colonized and just regular sand would that not
be enough?

If you think I should use the live sand could I at leaset mix it 50/50 with
the other (read cheaper) sand?

Other important fact. For the time being I will be using the rock/Sand as
biological filter with The Penguin mechanical filter that I used iwth this
tank when it was freshwater. I have some time on this. I am going to buy
some wood today and try to build my stand. My wife doubts my wood working
skill!! =)

Thanks in advance
James

Live sand or No
 

"James" wrote in message m...
Making some progress on my tank. It will be a 37 gallon FOWLR. It has been
suggested by the local pet store that I use live sand. Instead of normal
fishtank sand. I have. If I put in a 5 or 6 pound cured live rock with
some other rocks that can be colonized and just regular sand would that not
be enough?

If you think I should use the live sand could I at leaset mix it 50/50 with
the other (read cheaper) sand?

Other important fact. For the time being I will be using the rock/Sand as
biological filter with The Penguin mechanical filter that I used iwth this
tank when it was freshwater. I have some time on this. I am going to buy
some wood today and try to build my stand. My wife doubts my wood working
skill!! =)

My first, very important question would be:

What exactly do you think of when you say "live sand"?

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?

Or, you think of a wet sand packaged in a air-tight plastic bag
and sitting on the store shelf for a 6-12 months or longer?


If you are talking about the 1st - than I would say GO FOR IT.
You will find millions of living creatures in such sand -
starting from bacteria, through tiny crustaceans, worms, starfish,
micro-urchins, minicucumbers and many, many other sand-dwelling
animals. This is true live sand as similar name for live rock.
It is part of a living reef and is very beneficial for the fish
tank since some animals will be there which are missing from the
live rock but they play important role in tank waste recycling.

On the other hand, if you were talking about the plastic bag
with wet sand - my opinion is that it is dishonest to call it with
a "live sand" name at all. There is nothing live there except
some very small number of bacteria. And even these bacteria
I'am very doubtful they survive in a air-sealed plastic bag!
Notice the comment on the bag - the number of bacteria is given
for the time when the sand was packaged! Since then, how many
months without food and oxygen these bacteria had to survive
in the bag? Many, many months... And even if fresh - do you know
how they make this "live sand"?? They first sanitize it by
killing all animals you care for in a reef tank and then they
add a "bacteria starter" like the one you can buy in the fish store.

Why pay more, more, more money FOR A DEAD WET SAND ??? NO!!!!

Maybe if you were setting up old-fashoned tank with dead coral
skeletons as "decorations" (white bleached) and sand bottom
than it would make the diference - some bacteria are ok...
They will speed up the start. But it makes sense only if you
do not have live rock there already. Live rock will have tons
of live bacteria and these few you will add with this dead wet
sand will not make any difference.

Live sand or No
 

Pszemol wrote:
What exactly do you think of when you say "live sand"?

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?

Where do you get sand like this?

-K

Live sand or No
 

Pszemol wrote:

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?

Actually, uncured live rock usually takes at least two weeks to get from the
ocean around Fiji to your front door. It may spend days on Customs docks in L.A.
They're not going to dive for it one morning, pack it up that afternoon, and
have it to you the next day.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Live sand or No
 

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:KhjPg.767$GO2.384@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote:

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?

Actually, uncured live rock usually takes at least two weeks to get from the
ocean around Fiji to your front door. It may spend days on Customs docks in L.A.
They're not going to dive for it one morning, pack it up that afternoon, and
have it to you the next day.

Two weeks - probably true, but not two weeks in the sealed box!
And it is only because you cannot ship to USA live rock mined
at the USA territory (Florida/Hawaii) so you ship it from Asia.
In case of live sand it is usually shipped from Florida because
shipment it is not restricted.

Live sand or No
 

"Kelsey Cummings" wrote in message ...
Pszemol wrote:
What exactly do you think of when you say "live sand"?

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?

Where do you get sand like this?

In many places actually... Check your favorite online sto
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=403

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fiji-...-shipped-.html

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ct_Code=L-sand

http://www.reeftopia.com/liverocklivesand.html

And many others. Even there some sellers from Florida state on eBay:
http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/Sal...-activ+-active

Live sand or No
 

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:55:20 -0500, "Pszemol"
wrote:

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:KhjPg.767$GO2.384@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote:

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?

Actually, uncured live rock usually takes at least two weeks to get from the
ocean around Fiji to your front door. It may spend days on Customs docks in L.A.
They're not going to dive for it one morning, pack it up that afternoon, and
have it to you the next day.

Two weeks - probably true, but not two weeks in the sealed box!
And it is only because you cannot ship to USA live rock mined
at the USA territory (Florida/Hawaii) so you ship it from Asia.
In case of live sand it is usually shipped from Florida because
shipment it is not restricted.


I've bought live rock and live sand from Tampa Bay Sal****er in
Florida on two occasions. They grab it from the ocean and I think
they might store if for a couple days in holding tanks at their
facility, but then they box it up in the morning and put it on a
flight to Minneapolis, and that afternoon I go to the airport and pick
it up from the freight desk and take it home and put it in my tank
less than 24 hours after it was taken from the ocean (or from their
holding tanks).

And the rock was literally crawling with all sorts of great critters
and sponges and corals and all kinds of things. Great stuff, and I've
always been very pleased with their service and their quality.

Live sand or No
 

"Wilbur Slice" wrote in message ...
I've bought live rock and live sand from Tampa Bay Sal****er in
Florida on two occasions. They grab it from the ocean and I think
they might store if for a couple days in holding tanks at their
facility, but then they box it up in the morning and put it on a
flight to Minneapolis, and that afternoon I go to the airport and pick
it up from the freight desk and take it home and put it in my tank
less than 24 hours after it was taken from the ocean (or from their
holding tanks).

And the rock was literally crawling with all sorts of great critters
and sponges and corals and all kinds of things. Great stuff, and I've
always been very pleased with their service and their quality.

And this is the way it should be.
There is really no reason to pay big bucks for a dead wet sand in the bag at LFS.
But the most of the customers do not know better... unfortunatelly.
And the label on the bag is misleading - another dishonest snake oil.

Live sand or No
 

Yea I'm not a big fan of that bagged live sand that has
been sitting in a hot warehouse. What I do, is sell
customers dry calcium sand for 10.19 for 20 pound bag, and
if they want live sand, I've got the same sand in fish
bags in the sump with live rock with a date on it showing
when it was put in. After it's been there for a few
months, it's got lots of life in it. I tell the customers
to put the dry sand in the tank, and then seed it with
some of the live sand. That sure beats waisting money on
the warehouse live sand. I pulled one out one day, and a 3
inch shrimp jumped out of the sand. Now that's live sand :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 9/18/2006 10:23 AM:
"Wilbur Slice" wrote in message
...
I've bought live rock and live sand from Tampa Bay Sal****er in
Florida on two occasions. They grab it from the ocean and I think
they might store if for a couple days in holding tanks at their
facility, but then they box it up in the morning and put it on a
flight to Minneapolis, and that afternoon I go to the airport and pick
it up from the freight desk and take it home and put it in my tank
less than 24 hours after it was taken from the ocean (or from their
holding tanks).

And the rock was literally crawling with all sorts of great critters
and sponges and corals and all kinds of things. Great stuff, and I've
always been very pleased with their service and their quality.

And this is the way it should be. There is really no reason to pay big
bucks for a dead wet sand in the bag at LFS.
But the most of the customers do not know better... unfortunatelly.
And the label on the bag is misleading - another dishonest snake oil.

Live sand or No
 

Wilbur Slice wrote:

I've bought live rock and live sand from Tampa Bay Sal****er in
Florida on two occasions. They grab it from the ocean and I think
they might store if for a couple days in holding tanks at their
facility, but then they box it up in the morning and put it on a
flight to Minneapolis, and that afternoon I go to the airport and pick
it up from the freight desk and take it home and put it in my tank
less than 24 hours after it was taken from the ocean (or from their
holding tanks).

Nice web site, and the procedure they describe sure sounds better than the one
from Fiji. The rock still spends a fair amount of time in their holding tanks
before they consider it ready to ship; according to their site, anywhere from 3
days to two weeks. They claim to use fluidized bed filters and protein skimmers
on their vats, which I suspect is not done in Fiji or Tonga.

I just ordered 40 pounds of Tonga from another place, but they backordered it. I
need to check shipping costs from Tampa; this may be the way to go for me.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Live sand or No
 

Yea tampa bay salt water is aquacultured, and that is why
it is able to be taken out of the ocean. It is rock mined
out of the ground, and dropped in a permit area, and then
given time for stuff to grow.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Wilbur Slice wrote on 9/18/2006 10:15 AM:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:55:20 -0500, "Pszemol"
wrote:

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:KhjPg.767$GO2.384@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote:

Is it a sand freshly dug from the ocean botom and delivered to you
in styrofoam boxes overnight (or 2nd day air), like live rock is ?
Actually, uncured live rock usually takes at least two weeks to get from the
ocean around Fiji to your front door. It may spend days on Customs docks in L.A.
They're not going to dive for it one morning, pack it up that afternoon, and
have it to you the next day.
Two weeks - probably true, but not two weeks in the sealed box!
And it is only because you cannot ship to USA live rock mined
at the USA territory (Florida/Hawaii) so you ship it from Asia.
In case of live sand it is usually shipped from Florida because
shipment it is not restricted.


I've bought live rock and live sand from Tampa Bay Sal****er in
Florida on two occasions. They grab it from the ocean and I think
they might store if for a couple days in holding tanks at their
facility, but then they box it up in the morning and put it on a
flight to Minneapolis, and that afternoon I go to the airport and pick
it up from the freight desk and take it home and put it in my tank
less than 24 hours after it was taken from the ocean (or from their
holding tanks).

And the rock was literally crawling with all sorts of great critters
and sponges and corals and all kinds of things. Great stuff, and I've
always been very pleased with their service and their quality.

Live sand or No
 

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:53:54 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

Wilbur Slice wrote:

I've bought live rock and live sand from Tampa Bay Sal****er in
Florida on two occasions. They grab it from the ocean and I think
they might store if for a couple days in holding tanks at their
facility, but then they box it up in the morning and put it on a
flight to Minneapolis, and that afternoon I go to the airport and pick
it up from the freight desk and take it home and put it in my tank
less than 24 hours after it was taken from the ocean (or from their
holding tanks).

Nice web site, and the procedure they describe sure sounds better than the one
from Fiji. The rock still spends a fair amount of time in their holding tanks
before they consider it ready to ship; according to their site, anywhere from 3
days to two weeks. They claim to use fluidized bed filters and protein skimmers
on their vats, which I suspect is not done in Fiji or Tonga.

I just ordered 40 pounds of Tonga from another place, but they backordered it. I
need to check shipping costs from Tampa; this may be the way to go for me.



The only think I didn't like about their rock was - it had some Mantis
Shrimps and some hairy crabs hitching a ride, and those suckers were
hard to catch.

Live sand or No
 

Wilbur Slice wrote:

The only think I didn't like about their rock was - it had some Mantis
Shrimps and some hairy crabs hitching a ride, and those suckers were
hard to catch.

The Foster & Smith web site had some advice about this. They said to dump your
rock into a bucket of salt water with an SG of 1.035 to 1.040 for one minute.
They claim that all of the worms, shrimp, and crabs will bail out of the rock.
You can then move the rock to your tank or curing bin and pick through the
bucket to see if there's anything in there you want to keep.

I've not tried this, but I intend to when my next order arrives.

George Patterson
All successes in conservation are temporary. All defeats are permanent.

Live sand or No
 

Yea I've done this trick with much saltier water to get a
mantis shrimp out of a piece of live rock. That mantis
shot out like a rocket :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



George Patterson wrote on 9/18/2006 4:31 PM:
Wilbur Slice wrote:

The only think I didn't like about their rock was - it had some Mantis
Shrimps and some hairy crabs hitching a ride, and those suckers were
hard to catch.

The Foster & Smith web site had some advice about this. They said to
dump your rock into a bucket of salt water with an SG of 1.035 to 1.040
for one minute. They claim that all of the worms, shrimp, and crabs will
bail out of the rock. You can then move the rock to your tank or curing
bin and pick through the bucket to see if there's anything in there you
want to keep.

I've not tried this, but I intend to when my next order arrives.

George Patterson
All successes in conservation are temporary. All defeats are
permanent.