gravel cleaning or changing
 

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Hi

thanks for that, maybe its because i hold the syphon right at the
bottom, i will try it mid tank.and i shouldnt be afraid to do changes
more often then? i am just concerned that my tap water is very high in
nitrate . i do add the chemicals to bring it down but they dont seem to
be too effective.

t
f


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

froggo wrote:
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

If you don't have plants to absorb excess nitrates and your tap water is
high in nitrates, then an accumulating mass of dead organic matter
within your gravel can only contribute to an even higher nitrate level.
If your gravel is composed of large grains, then that can trap and
accumulate dirt. A gravel cleaner cleans gravel by having the end pushed
into the substrate by a certain amount to force a flow of water deep
into the gravel, literally washing it and siphoning the dirt away.
Usually, gravel is too heavy to be sucked up at the same time, unless
you've got sand. Even then, with fine control of the flow, just the dirt
can be excised leaving the sand behind. Seven to 14 days sounds fine to
me. Personally, I don't gravel clean. My plants take care of the excess
nitrates. And all my aquariums use sand substrate which isn't prone to
trap dirt as easily as gravel. Instead, the dirt accumulates in the filter.

Nikki

gravel cleaning or changing
 

"froggo" wrote in news:1160557487.630974.307870
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f


How's your hand at feeding? Light or heavy? Does any food reach the
substrate?

What is your tank size and fish load? Are you overstocked, and making more
waste than your tank can allow?

Gravel vac is a fine means of exporting nutrients, and keeping nitrates
low. Regular vacuuming can help keep old tank syndrome away. Many people
with a light feeding hand, or a planted tank have no need to vacuum gravel
thoroughly, though. Every tank is different (as is every aquarist).

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

gravel cleaning or changing
 

atomweaver wrote:
"froggo" wrote in news:1160557487.630974.307870
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks


Hey froggo, Also what you could be seeing as "dirt" could be a natural
occuring algael growth. Brown diatom algae happens to most tanks in
that general time frame. There are some fish that just love the stuff.
You'll also notice that it will slowly fade away, probably getting
replaced by another type of algae.

steve

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On 11 Oct 2006 06:05:49 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

Hi

thanks for that, maybe its because i hold the syphon right at the
bottom, i will try it mid tank.and i shouldnt be afraid to do changes
more often then? i am just concerned that my tap water is very high in
nitrate . i do add the chemicals to bring it down but they dont seem to
be too effective.

t
f


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

I add no chemicals. My local water pH is high, 7.8, but has not been
a problem.

Measure the nitrates of your tap water if you have doubts. Make all of
the tests on the tap water.

I am not reliable with chemicals and killed a number of fish while
lowering the pH, the tank went acid. It was terrible. That decided
me to try not adjusting. It has worked well for me.

I would not worry about where the syphon is located. A good argument
can be made for keeping the syphon low as denser water loaded with
"solids" will sink. I find it hard to get near the gravel due to
plants in the way.

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Hi, I have never thought to test the tap water, just the aquarium
water. what a good idea!
thanks


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 06:05:49 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

Hi

thanks for that, maybe its because i hold the syphon right at the
bottom, i will try it mid tank.and i shouldnt be afraid to do changes
more often then? i am just concerned that my tap water is very high in
nitrate . i do add the chemicals to bring it down but they dont seem to
be too effective.

t
f


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

I add no chemicals. My local water pH is high, 7.8, but has not been
a problem.

Measure the nitrates of your tap water if you have doubts. Make all of
the tests on the tap water.

I am not reliable with chemicals and killed a number of fish while
lowering the pH, the tank went acid. It was terrible. That decided
me to try not adjusting. It has worked well for me.

I would not worry about where the syphon is located. A good argument
can be made for keeping the syphon low as denser water loaded with
"solids" will sink. I find it hard to get near the gravel due to
plants in the way.

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

H,

I dont think i have enough plants., i only have one - its only a 50
litre tank but still, perhaps i could do with some more and it could
help.

i might well consider sand in the future.
thanks for yr help.
f


Nikki Casali wrote:
froggo wrote:
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

If you don't have plants to absorb excess nitrates and your tap water is
high in nitrates, then an accumulating mass of dead organic matter
within your gravel can only contribute to an even higher nitrate level.
If your gravel is composed of large grains, then that can trap and
accumulate dirt. A gravel cleaner cleans gravel by having the end pushed
into the substrate by a certain amount to force a flow of water deep
into the gravel, literally washing it and siphoning the dirt away.
Usually, gravel is too heavy to be sucked up at the same time, unless
you've got sand. Even then, with fine control of the flow, just the dirt
can be excised leaving the sand behind. Seven to 14 days sounds fine to
me. Personally, I don't gravel clean. My plants take care of the excess
nitrates. And all my aquariums use sand substrate which isn't prone to
trap dirt as easily as gravel. Instead, the dirt accumulates in the filter.

Nikki

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Hi, I suspect i am probably too heavy handed - they go mad when the
feed comes in (once a day - a small pinch), but i only have 4 pencil
fish, 4 guppies, 2 harlequin tetras and 1 neon, so perhaps not
overstocked for a 50litre tank?

thanks

How's your hand at feeding? Light or heavy? Does any food reach the
substrate?

What is your tank size and fish load? Are you overstocked, and making more
waste than your tank can allow?

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Hi steve

now you mention it , im sure its algae - when im sitting on the floor
looking into the tank its at direct eye level so i get a good look!! so
will it just go away by itself? Oh i forgot to mention in my reply to
previous message I have a catfish in there too. he is doing his best,
but theres a lot of green algae on the sides and on the filter etc.,

thanks



Hey froggo, Also what you could be seeing as "dirt" could be a natural
occuring algael growth. Brown diatom algae happens to most tanks in
that general time frame. There are some fish that just love the stuff.
You'll also notice that it will slowly fade away, probably getting
replaced by another type of algae.

steve

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Hi, I suspect i am probably too heavy handed - they go mad when the
feed comes in (once a day - a small pinch), but i only have 4 pencil
fish, 4 guppies, 2 harlequin tetras and 1 neon, so perhaps not
overstocked for a 50litre tank?

thanks

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Hi steve

now you mention it , im sure its algae - when im sitting on the floor
looking into the tank its at direct eye level so i get a good look!! so
will it just go away by itself? Oh i forgot to mention in my reply to
previous message I have a catfish in there too. he is doing his best,
but theres a lot of green algae on the sides and on the filter etc.,

thanks



Hey froggo, Also what you could be seeing as "dirt" could be a natural
occuring algael growth. Brown diatom algae happens to most tanks in
that general time frame. There are some fish that just love the stuff.
You'll also notice that it will slowly fade away, probably getting
replaced by another type of algae.

steve

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On 12 Oct 2006 12:50:52 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

Hi steve

now you mention it , im sure its algae - when im sitting on the floor
looking into the tank its at direct eye level so i get a good look!! so
will it just go away by itself? Oh i forgot to mention in my reply to
previous message I have a catfish in there too. he is doing his best,
but theres a lot of green algae on the sides and on the filter etc.,

thanks



Hey froggo, Also what you could be seeing as "dirt" could be a natural
occuring algael growth. Brown diatom algae happens to most tanks in
that general time frame. There are some fish that just love the stuff.
You'll also notice that it will slowly fade away, probably getting
replaced by another type of algae.

steve

Algae get your hopes up re algae going away.

Is your tank getting any sunlight? Two my 10 gallon tanks get
indirect sunlight and have brown algae on the glass.

My 29 and 75 get no sunlight but have green dots of algae on the
glass. Both tanks have Plecos, Cory cats and Siamese Algae Eaters.

I scrape the glass when I get bothered by the algae.

Over eating is a continual hazard for my fish. I am so concerned they
don't get enough. One look should argue against that fear, they all
are well filled out.

I wonder how much lighting you have on your tank? The measure is
total light in "watts" divided by tank size in gallons.

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

froggo wrote:
Hi steve

now you mention it , im sure its algae - when im sitting on the floor
looking into the tank its at direct eye level so i get a good look!! so
will it just go away by itself? Oh i forgot to mention in my reply to
previous message I have a catfish in there too. he is doing his best,
but theres a lot of green algae on the sides and on the filter etc.,

thanks

Well, that depends... Depends on how much light the tank gets during
the day and some other things. Your tank is a 50L, which to me is just
a bit bigger than our 10 gallon. So, 10 fish is about the limit. I
would have recommended an otto or two to clean up the diatom algae but
there's really no room for them. Snails work at it too. A pleco is way
out of the question. Me? In that small tank I'd just let it go, and
clean it manually when it get's too gross to look at. Leave the lights
off for most of the day, only turning them on when you're in the room
and enjoying the fish.

steve

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

Dick,
Please remember that you need to add the part of having lots of plants
in the tank.
The plants are keeping that gravel clean for you.
Without them, you would need to be doing a gravel vacuum.
Somebody new to the hobby may think by your post that you never need to
it.
Of course this depends on several factors, such as over feeding, over
crowding, no or only a few live plants, etc.

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On 14 Oct 2006 10:31:05 -0700, "Tynk" wrote:


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

Dick,
Please remember that you need to add the part of having lots of plants
in the tank.
The plants are keeping that gravel clean for you.
Without them, you would need to be doing a gravel vacuum.
Somebody new to the hobby may think by your post that you never need to
it.
Of course this depends on several factors, such as over feeding, over
crowding, no or only a few live plants, etc.

I do have heavy plant growth in my tanks.

The poster gave no details, but said he was not vacuuming the gravel.
He said nothing about plants. I have no experience with tanks without
gravel. You may be right. However, I don't do several things others
say are vital. I am not aware of plants cleaning the gravel. I have
one 10 gallon that I anchor the plants with lead. It has a thin layer
of sand just for looks. It used to be my quarantine tank. It has
been up over 3 years. So, even that limited experience would not say
cleaning the gravel has worth.

Actually, I wonder why you believe the gravel needs cleaning? The
poster says nothing about any problems. His concern seems to be from
reading comments like yours. He may well have plants.

I accept your caution, but only as a caution, not proof of your
belief.

I think there are too many rules, too many chemicals, too many gadgets
which I have found adding complexity where it is not needed. Having
said that, I do understand that people wanting more exotic tanks have
a large world of chemicals, foods, gadgets to enhance their tanks.

gravel cleaning or changing
 

"froggo" wrote in message
oups.com...
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?
========================
I use a gravel vac from the pet shop to thoroughly clean the gravel when I
do water changes. The gravel is clean except around the live plants where I
don't want to harm the roots. I just go over those areas lightly. There's
few things more unsightly than gravel covered in mulm.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:48:05 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:


"froggo" wrote in message
roups.com...
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?
========================
I use a gravel vac from the pet shop to thoroughly clean the gravel when I
do water changes. The gravel is clean except around the live plants where I
don't want to harm the roots. I just go over those areas lightly. There's
few things more unsightly than gravel covered in mulm.

Now that sounds like a reason to vacuum the bottom. Who wants to look
at unsightly "mulm."

What is mulm?

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:48:05 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:


"froggo" wrote in message
groups.com...
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?
========================
I use a gravel vac from the pet shop to thoroughly clean the gravel when I
do water changes. The gravel is clean except around the live plants where
I
don't want to harm the roots. I just go over those areas lightly. There's
few things more unsightly than gravel covered in mulm.

Now that sounds like a reason to vacuum the bottom. Who wants to look
at unsightly "mulm."

What is mulm?

mulm organic sediment at bottom of an aquarium

gravel cleaning or changing
 

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:48:05 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:
I use a gravel vac from the pet shop to thoroughly clean the gravel when I
do water changes. The gravel is clean except around the live plants where
I
don't want to harm the roots. I just go over those areas lightly. There's
few things more unsightly than gravel covered in mulm.

Now that sounds like a reason to vacuum the bottom. Who wants to look
at unsightly "mulm."

What is mulm?
=================
That's the decomposing and decomposed dropping from the fish mixed with
decaying plant matter and any food the fish missed or couldn't consume.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:04:56 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:48:05 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:
I use a gravel vac from the pet shop to thoroughly clean the gravel when I
do water changes. The gravel is clean except around the live plants where
I
don't want to harm the roots. I just go over those areas lightly. There's
few things more unsightly than gravel covered in mulm.

Now that sounds like a reason to vacuum the bottom. Who wants to look
at unsightly "mulm."

What is mulm?
=================
That's the decomposing and decomposed dropping from the fish mixed with
decaying plant matter and any food the fish missed or couldn't consume.

Thanks. I don't have any mulm. I wonder if the food I use makes a
difference? I use Tetramin " Tropical Flakes" mixed with "Spirulina."

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

Dick wrote in
:

Actually, I wonder why you believe the gravel needs cleaning? The
poster says nothing about any problems. His concern seems to be from
reading comments like yours. He may well have plants.

I accept your caution, but only as a caution, not proof of your
belief.


Belief? No. I have an unplanted tank, and my local water is normally soft
and acidic (low bufering capacity). When I vacuum the gravel during water
changes, I see a marked control in the rate at which total nitrates
develop, since I'm removing more decaying matter than I would by just
decanting off the supernatant water.
Without gravel vacuuming, fish waste continues to decay in the gravel
substrate, and nitrate levels rise more rapidly, requiring larger water
changes to keep nitrates 20 ppm. Its not belief... its math. But it is
also setup-specific, hence Tynk's wisely added caution. People don't
vacuum gravel on mere superstition, although Iunderstand how you might
think that about a lot of fishkeeping practices.

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

gravel cleaning or changing
 

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:04:56 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:
That's the decomposing and decomposed dropping from the fish mixed with
decaying plant matter and any food the fish missed or couldn't consume.

Thanks. I don't have any mulm. I wonder if the food I use makes a
difference? I use Tetramin " Tropical Flakes" mixed with "Spirulina."
===========================
Your filter may be picking it all up if there's enough current to keep it
from settling. :-)
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

gravel cleaning or changing
 

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:26:14 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:04:56 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:
That's the decomposing and decomposed dropping from the fish mixed with
decaying plant matter and any food the fish missed or couldn't consume.

Thanks. I don't have any mulm. I wonder if the food I use makes a
difference? I use Tetramin " Tropical Flakes" mixed with "Spirulina."
===========================
Your filter may be picking it all up if there's enough current to keep it
from settling. :-)

As you know from my spouting off so often, filters merely strain the
solids. The water passes the solids captured by the media. Erosion
reduces the size of the solids allowing them to return to the tank.
I think the smaller waste size keeps them from being seen and gives
the bacteria a more digestible portion.

I have never found any test to show my water parameters to be harmful.

All speculation on my part. I live happily on with my ignorance.

dick

gravel cleaning or changing
 

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:26:14 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:04:56 -0500, Köi-Lö wrote:
That's the decomposing and decomposed dropping from the fish mixed with
decaying plant matter and any food the fish missed or couldn't consume.

Thanks. I don't have any mulm. I wonder if the food I use makes a
difference? I use Tetramin " Tropical Flakes" mixed with "Spirulina."
===========================
Your filter may be picking it all up if there's enough current to keep it
from settling. :-)

As you know from my spouting off so often, filters merely strain the
solids. The water passes the solids captured by the media. Erosion
reduces the size of the solids allowing them to return to the tank.
I think the smaller waste size keeps them from being seen and gives
the bacteria a more digestible portion.

I have never found any test to show my water parameters to be harmful.

All speculation on my part. I live happily on with my ignorance.
===================

Whatever works for YOU. Once the mulm is totally broken down and in
suspension it's removed with partial water changes.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*