Booger flicking
 

In keeping with the "I don't want to ruin his post" philosophy.

Nope, I don't see. I took advice from trusted people with ideas that
make sense. Not from complete boobs that vomit words with no evidence
at all, other than "Try it, it'll work".

I don't expect that the OP should believe what I have to say. I have no
evidence either, I state that(you don't). I want the OP to read my post
and say, hmm there's an idea that kinda makes sense and it worked for
him and the other poster, who had to move a long way. I'm going to do
an internet search and see if others did the same thing...or maybe
altered that plan a bit. When I saw your post, it didn't make sense,
why would countless people do useless water changes....then I find
articles saying things like :

Water change

Old tank syndrome symptoms can be an effect of insufficient water changes.

Which can be read about he
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/10/aafeature

that article says...scientists, in a lab, did the exact studies you were
thinking of, and found that....you are full of s***

So, I chose not to believe you.

If the OP finds things saying, don't carry sand and a little water in
your tank, it will break. I expect that he'll come back and say, dude,
you shouldn't tell people to do that....it's a bad idea. I will then
listen like a normal human being.

Booger flicking
 

Nope, I don't see. I took advice from trusted people with ideas that make
sense.

Intelligence is a prerequisite for information to make sense. This is your
problem.
I don't expect you to understand this for the same reason.


at all, other than "Try it, it'll work".

What evidence do you have to support your tank moving advice? How many
times have you performed this move?

I want the OP to read my post and say, hmm there's an idea that kinda makes
sense and it worked for him and the other poster...

This is very hypocritical of you eh Patty? I offered the same with my water
changing philosophy.

When I saw your post, it didn't make sense, why would countless people do
useless water changes....then I find articles saying things like :

Water change

Old tank syndrome symptoms can be an effect of insufficient water changes.

Which can be read about he
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/10/aafeature

Don't believe everything you read.

Did you read this part:
"Water changes of approximately 10 to 25% monthly help to limit the
long-term change in the ionic composition of seawater in a closed system
aquarium."

Do you know what limit means? It doesn't mean prevent. That means you can
do water changes and still have the same changes in ionic composition.

Again, Don't believe all that you read.


that article says...scientists, in a lab, did the exact studies you were
thinking of, and found that....you are full of s***

So, I chose not to believe you.

Your option.

Booger flicking
 

bo0ger1 wrote:
Nope, I don't see. I took advice from trusted people with ideas that make
sense.


Intelligence is a prerequisite for information to make sense. This is your
problem.
I don't expect you to understand this for the same reason.

I, again, guarantee that I am more intelligant than you. No contest.




at all, other than "Try it, it'll work".


What evidence do you have to support your tank moving advice? How many
times have you performed this move?

None, other than many others tried it with the same results, and that
can be searched for on the internet. I also stated, that I'm no expert.
It was the first thing I said. I said it might not even be a good
way. You, however, pompously state that yours is the best way, and post
in pompous fashion anytime anybody says they did a water change. You
actually think it's better for your creatures, and that's just a
completely STUPID conclusion.


I want the OP to read my post and say, hmm there's an idea that kinda makes
sense and it worked for him and the other poster...


This is very hypocritical of you eh Patty? I offered the same with my water
changing philosophy.

I did search the net for people that recommend not changing water, and
found nothing...google overloaded me with sites saying "Change your
water". Didn't find one single page saying "DO NOT change your water".

So you are in fact the smartest scientist on the planet, not only do you
not have to support your theories, you don't even have to experiment in
a lab, a simple home aquarium will do the trick.


When I saw your post, it didn't make sense, why would countless people do
useless water changes....then I find articles saying things like :

Water change

Old tank syndrome symptoms can be an effect of insufficient water changes.

Which can be read about he
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/10/aafeature


Don't believe everything you read.

Did you read this part:
"Water changes of approximately 10 to 25% monthly help to limit the
long-term change in the ionic composition of seawater in a closed system
aquarium."

Do you know what limit means? It doesn't mean prevent. That means you can
do water changes and still have the same changes in ionic composition.

No, limit means it will have a lesser effect, thus things will go better
for longer, they had better results with water changes. Not the same
changes, but a Dr. should know that.

Again, Don't believe all that you read.

Show me something that I can read/look at/hear/smell that supports your
point....anything....anything at all.


that article says...scientists, in a lab, did the exact studies you were
thinking of, and found that....you are full of s***

So, I chose not to believe you.


Your option.
Sure is, and I take it gladly.
By the way which cancer drug did you invent?

Booger flicking
 

Your option.
Sure is, and I take it gladly.
By the way which cancer drug did you invent?


I am the co-inventor on two patents for medicinal agents, one of which is
for oncology.

Booger flicking
 

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message m...
Water change

Old tank syndrome symptoms can be an effect of insufficient water changes.

Which can be read about he
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/10/aafeature

Don't believe everything you read.

Did you read this part:
"Water changes of approximately 10 to 25% monthly help to limit the
long-term change in the ionic composition of seawater in a closed system
aquarium."

Do you know what limit means? It doesn't mean prevent. That means you can
do water changes and still have the same changes in ionic composition.

So which tank will experience bigger difference in the ionic composition:
- the one you replenish 25% of water composition every month ?
- the one you replenish 10% of water composition every month ?
- the one you do not replenish used up ions at all ?

Booger flicking
 

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message m...
Your option.
Sure is, and I take it gladly.
By the way which cancer drug did you invent?

I am the co-inventor on two patents for medicinal agents,
one of which is for oncology.

What this have to do with keeping reef animals ?
What parts of medical studies make you a reef expert ?

Booger flicking
 

What this have to do with keeping reef animals ?

He asked.

What parts of medical studies make you a reef expert ?
Never claimed to be a reef expert.

Booger flicking
 

So which tank will experience bigger difference in the ionic composition:
- the one you replenish 25% of water composition every month ?
- the one you replenish 10% of water composition every month ?
- the one you do not replenish used up ions at all ?

My point is that they ALL will experience a change in ionic composition.

Booger flicking
 

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message m...
So which tank will experience bigger difference in the ionic composition:
- the one you replenish 25% of water composition every month ?
- the one you replenish 10% of water composition every month ?
- the one you do not replenish used up ions at all ?

My point is that they ALL will experience a change in ionic composition.

The question was: Which one will experience BIGGER difference!
You pretend you did not notice or you really did not notice?

Booger flicking
 

My point is that they ALL will experience a change in ionic composition.

The question was: Which one will experience BIGGER difference!
You pretend you did not notice or you really did not notice?

I realize that one will have a faster rate than the other. My point is it
doesn't matter because they all are moving in the same direction, just with
different rates.

They also only say "limit". How much is it limited by? It could be only
2-5%.

Booger flicking
 

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message ...
I realize that one will have a faster rate than the other. My point is it
doesn't matter because they all are moving in the same direction, just with
different rates.

If the consumption of certain ions is slower than the replenishment
rate than you could keep up with water changes...

They also only say "limit". How much is it limited by?
It could be only 2-5%.

Or 80% - it will depend on the rate of the water change
and the amount of consumption of ions by your corals...

Oh, right - you do not have corals! :-)))
What do you do in the *reef* forum than ?

Booger flicking
 

I realize that one will have a faster rate than the other. My point is
it doesn't matter because they all are moving in the same direction, just
with different rates.

If the consumption of certain ions is slower than the replenishment
rate than you could keep up with water changes...

Lets look at it again:

"Water changes of approximately 10 to 25% monthly help to limit the
long-term change in the ionic composition of seawater in a closed system
aquarium."

The water changes help to LIMIT not PREVENT changes in ionic composition.
Why are you having a problem with this?

"Limit" could mean anything. It could be limit by 1%, 2%, 3%. We don't
know do we?


They also only say "limit". How much is it limited by?
It could be only 2-5%.

Or 80% - it will depend on the rate of the water change
and the amount of consumption of ions by your corals...

I really doubt it's as high as 80%.


Oh, right - you do not have corals! :-)))
What do you do in the *reef* forum than ?

To help you people. Especially YOU. :)

Booger flicking
 

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message ...
Oh, right - you do not have corals! :-)))
What do you do in the *reef* forum than ?

To help you people. Especially YOU. :)

Who asked you for help here ? Show me!

Why do you teach people how to have successful
reef tanks if you have no experience with one?

And why are you so bothered with people changing
water in their tanks ? Its their tanks, their water.
They pay for it! Why do you think it is your business?

Booger flicking
 

bo0ger1 wrote:

The water changes help to LIMIT not PREVENT changes in ionic composition.

Booger,

Let me see if I understand your logic. You recommend against water
changes because they limit but do not eliminate certain problems with
water degradation. By analogy, can we assume the following?

1. You recommend smoking since quitting limits but doesn't eliminate
the chance of lung cancer.

2. You recommend fatty foods because a healthy diet limits but doesn't
eliminate the chance of heart disease.

3. You recommend ignoring traffic laws because adherence to them limits
but does not eliminate the chance of an accident.

4. You recommend running with scissors because not doing so limits but
does not eliminate the chance of stabbing yourself.

5. You recommend hunting with Dick Cheney since avoiding him limits but
doesn't eliminate the chance of getting shot.

Oddly enough, I don't totally disagree with the idea that water changes
aren't always necessary (just as I sometimes drive fast while eating a
cheeseburger). OTOH: The people who keep reef type aquariums without
changing water are few and far between and they tend to be quite
sophisticated in their understanding of what's going on in their
system. Further, such people are using a combination of filtration and
bio-load tailored to their (non) water change regime. For everyone else
water changing is the easiest way to insure that trace elements are
maintained and trace toxins are removed.

Your posts imply that water changes can simply be stopped; without
regard to any other system considerations. Given that many of the
people reading this forum are relative newcomers to reefkeeping it is
irresponsible of you to make such claims. This is especially true in
light of the fact that you have apparently chosen to not keep those
animals (mainly cnidarians) which are most sensitive to water quality
and to which this forum is dedicated.


Changeably yours,

Alex

Booger flicking
 

Well done! Nicely put!

rtk


Tidepool Geek wrote:
bo0ger1 wrote:

The water changes help to LIMIT not PREVENT changes in ionic composition.


Booger,

Let me see if I understand your logic. You recommend against water
changes because they limit but do not eliminate certain problems with
water degradation. By analogy, can we assume the following?

1. You recommend smoking since quitting limits but doesn't eliminate
the chance of lung cancer.

2. You recommend fatty foods because a healthy diet limits but doesn't
eliminate the chance of heart disease.

3. You recommend ignoring traffic laws because adherence to them limits
but does not eliminate the chance of an accident.

4. You recommend running with scissors because not doing so limits but
does not eliminate the chance of stabbing yourself.

5. You recommend hunting with Dick Cheney since avoiding him limits but
doesn't eliminate the chance of getting shot.

Oddly enough, I don't totally disagree with the idea that water changes
aren't always necessary (just as I sometimes drive fast while eating a
cheeseburger). OTOH: The people who keep reef type aquariums without
changing water are few and far between and they tend to be quite
sophisticated in their understanding of what's going on in their
system. Further, such people are using a combination of filtration and
bio-load tailored to their (non) water change regime. For everyone else
water changing is the easiest way to insure that trace elements are
maintained and trace toxins are removed.

Your posts imply that water changes can simply be stopped; without
regard to any other system considerations. Given that many of the
people reading this forum are relative newcomers to reefkeeping it is
irresponsible of you to make such claims. This is especially true in
light of the fact that you have apparently chosen to not keep those
animals (mainly cnidarians) which are most sensitive to water quality
and to which this forum is dedicated.


Changeably yours,

Alex

Booger flicking
 

Booger,

Let me see if I understand your logic. You recommend against water
changes because they limit but do not eliminate certain problems with
water degradation. By analogy, can we assume the following?

No. I recommend against water changes because they are NOT necessary.
Furthermore it puts undue stress on your inhabitants.

SNIP nonsense


Oddly enough, I don't totally disagree with the idea that water changes
aren't always necessary (just as I sometimes drive fast while eating a
cheeseburger). OTOH: The people who keep reef type aquariums without
changing water are few and far between and they tend to be quite
sophisticated in their understanding of what's going on in their
system.

??

Further, such people are using a combination of filtration and
bio-load tailored to their (non) water change regime.

Really? Not me.

For everyone else water changing is the easiest way to insure that trace
elements are
maintained and trace toxins are removed.

The easiest way is NOT always the best way.

Based on your logic can I conclude the following?

1) You sleep in your clothes and wear the same thing the next day because it
is easier.
2) You do ALL of your shopping over the internet
3) You eat out for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
4) You only shower once a month.

Your posts imply that water changes can simply be stopped;

My posts don't imply that water changes can be stopped, they flat out state
that water changes can be stopped.


without regard to any other system considerations.

Other system conditions? I wouldn't stop water changes without adequate
live rock or a functioning skimmer.

Given that many of the people reading this forum are relative newcomers to
reefkeeping it is
irresponsible of you to make such claims.

I think it is irresponsible of you to imply that water changes are
absolutely necessary when they most definitely are not with a properly set
up marine aquarium.

This is especially true in light of the fact that you have apparently
chosen to not keep those
animals (mainly cnidarians) which are most sensitive to water quality
and to which this forum is dedicated.

Anemones are VERY sensitive to water conditions. Mine is doing awesome.


Changeably yours,

Alex

Booger flicking
 

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message ...
Anemones are VERY sensitive to water conditions. Mine is doing awesome.

What species anemone do you have ?

Booger flicking
 

bo0ger1 wrote on 11/15/2006 6:26 PM:

No. I recommend against water changes because they are NOT necessary.
Furthermore it puts undue stress on your inhabitants.

The only time it puts undue stress on inhabitants is when
someone does not know how to make salt water.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Booger flicking
 

Wayne Sallee wrote:


The only time it puts undue stress on inhabitants is when someone does
not know how to make salt water.


Speaking of which:
I add 3 cups of salt to 6 gallons of water, leave a small
heater and pump in the bucket, check the salt level after a
couple days, but let it churn away the remaining days until
the weekly change. Doing such a small amount (for a 55
gallon tank) is so hassle free. I don't have to run the
water down to the basement drain or outside as I do my
turtle tank and I don't have to guess at the percentage by
the level of water in the tank. Just fill a bucket and
replace a bucket.

rtk