KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH tends to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the 6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:03:31 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

You could be raising your pH move often than required, not to mention
have the pH go through up and down swings which can be harmful to your
fish.

KH is one of the more important things to test, because it acts as a
buffer. The higher the KH, the more stable your pH. There's many ways
to raise KH, like using baking soda, crushed coral, shells, limestone,
etc etc.

For the $10 it costs for the kit, it's worth every penny.

.... IMHO :)

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

Well at the moment I monitor pH, and if it is low, I add very small (less
than half a teaspoon) amounts of baking soda to gradually bring it up over a
few days, in addition to my weekly water change of around 15% volume.
If doing this gives me stable pH over time, is there any benefit to knowing
the actual KH value?
Surely if I had the test kit, I would find that my KH is low (probably,
since my pH is), and therefore the remedial action would be exactly the same
as if I found the pH was low?
Regards,
Richard.

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:03:31 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

You could be raising your pH move often than required, not to mention
have the pH go through up and down swings which can be harmful to your
fish.

KH is one of the more important things to test, because it acts as a
buffer. The higher the KH, the more stable your pH. There's many ways
to raise KH, like using baking soda, crushed coral, shells, limestone,
etc etc.

For the $10 it costs for the kit, it's worth every penny.

... IMHO :)

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:vgC1c.187$re1.61@newsfe1-win...
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,
pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH tends
to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the 6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium
carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as
the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.



I have all those test kits and in a fully cycled tank I never have to use my
ammonia or nitrite kit. I have an electronic PH meter and I use my KH kit a
lot simply because I have heavily planted tanks and the PH values and KH
values are tied together to determine the amount of CO2 that I need to
inject. In your case I would do the necessary research to find the best
water conditions for your fish and then adjust you PH and KH to match that.
I would not use chemicals like PH up or down to change your PH levels. This
is only a temporary solution and the PH will change back to its original
state. The constant swing in PH can be harmful to your fish. If your water
needs to be harder and more alkaline then adjust using baking soda to get it
to the right conditions. Once you know how much you need to add to get to a
certain point you can then easily maintain this level. The KH/GH test kit is
handy to have to check every now and again to make sure you are in the
proper range. In my African tank my tap water comes out at about 7.5 and
hardness around 70 PPM. Using baking soda I easily maintain PH of 8.0 and
hardness around 140-170 PPM.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?
Regards,
Richard.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:vgC1c.187$re1.61@newsfe1-win...
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is
one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,
pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH tends
to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since
if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the 6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium
carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as
the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.



I have all those test kits and in a fully cycled tank I never have to use
my
ammonia or nitrite kit. I have an electronic PH meter and I use my KH kit
a
lot simply because I have heavily planted tanks and the PH values and KH
values are tied together to determine the amount of CO2 that I need to
inject. In your case I would do the necessary research to find the best
water conditions for your fish and then adjust you PH and KH to match
that.
I would not use chemicals like PH up or down to change your PH levels.
This
is only a temporary solution and the PH will change back to its original
state. The constant swing in PH can be harmful to your fish. If your water
needs to be harder and more alkaline then adjust using baking soda to get
it
to the right conditions. Once you know how much you need to add to get to
a
certain point you can then easily maintain this level. The KH/GH test kit
is
handy to have to check every now and again to make sure you are in the
proper range. In my African tank my tap water comes out at about 7.5 and
hardness around 70 PPM. Using baking soda I easily maintain PH of 8.0 and
hardness around 140-170 PPM.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:37:21 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?

You should have pH, KH and GH test kits to determine the amount of
additives (baking soda, epsom salts, marine salt, etc.) you need for
your particular tap chemisty and tank size.

And they aren't linked 1:1. For example, my pH is 8.0 and my KH is
around 250. My tap water is 7.5 and my KH & GH are 10 ppm.

You'll want to read:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php

And any other article that me be of relevance to you on that site.

Good luck.

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

Thanks,
I shall take a look!
R.

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:37:21 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular
pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked
to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a
particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?

You should have pH, KH and GH test kits to determine the amount of
additives (baking soda, epsom salts, marine salt, etc.) you need for
your particular tap chemisty and tank size.

And they aren't linked 1:1. For example, my pH is 8.0 and my KH is
around 250. My tap water is 7.5 and my KH & GH are 10 ppm.

You'll want to read:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php

And any other article that me be of relevance to you on that site.

Good luck.

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

One other thing though, if my pH was low and I wanted to raise it slightly,
I would prob use baking soda regardless of KH wouldn't I?
What other avenues would I have if my KH was "high" relative to my pH?
R.

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:37:21 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular
pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked
to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a
particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?

You should have pH, KH and GH test kits to determine the amount of
additives (baking soda, epsom salts, marine salt, etc.) you need for
your particular tap chemisty and tank size.

And they aren't linked 1:1. For example, my pH is 8.0 and my KH is
around 250. My tap water is 7.5 and my KH & GH are 10 ppm.

You'll want to read:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php

And any other article that me be of relevance to you on that site.

Good luck.

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:37:21 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular
pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked
to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a
particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?

You should have pH, KH and GH test kits to determine the amount of
additives (baking soda, epsom salts, marine salt, etc.) you need for
your particular tap chemisty and tank size.

And they aren't linked 1:1. For example, my pH is 8.0 and my KH is
around 250. My tap water is 7.5 and my KH & GH are 10 ppm.

You'll want to read:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php

And any other article that me be of relevance to you on that site.

Good luck.



you read those articles and came to the conclusion that PH and KH are not
linked?? They are linked in so far if you buffer your water using baking
soda to obtain a higher PH then your KH will also rise. If you lower your KH
say using R/O water then your PH will drop. Linked, yes definitely.

Rick

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

He did say they aren't linked "1:1", I think he means that low pH and low KH
tend to go together, but there is not a predictable relationship (unless I
guess, you get very scientific about it?!).
R.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:37:21 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how
much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular
pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are
linked
to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a
particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?

You should have pH, KH and GH test kits to determine the amount of
additives (baking soda, epsom salts, marine salt, etc.) you need for
your particular tap chemisty and tank size.

And they aren't linked 1:1. For example, my pH is 8.0 and my KH is
around 250. My tap water is 7.5 and my KH & GH are 10 ppm.

You'll want to read:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php

And any other article that me be of relevance to you on that site.

Good luck.



you read those articles and came to the conclusion that PH and KH are not
linked?? They are linked in so far if you buffer your water using baking
soda to obtain a higher PH then your KH will also rise. If you lower your
KH
say using R/O water then your PH will drop. Linked, yes definitely.

Rick

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:N2I1c.1054$m56.217@newsfe1-win...
I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked
to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a
particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?
Regards,
Richard.

baking soda , regardless of how much you add will only max your PH out at
about 8.3-8.4 and raise your KH at the same time. They are linked because
buffering your water with baking soda to raise the PH will raise the KH and
lowering your hardness (KH ) say using R/O water will lower your PH values.
You can create your own table by measuring your KH and PH and they will stay
consistent with each other. So you start with a known Ph and Kh which is
your current tank water. Add one tablespoon of baking soda , wait for a half
hour or so and take another measurement of both. Write the info down. If
your still far off from where you want to be ( I have no idea how big your
tank is) you can add another tbls and take another measurement. As you get
close to the parameters you want you may only add one tsp. You keep tract of
the amounts to get your entire tank to the levels you want then when you do
a water change you will know how much to add to the new water. Check out the
link below, from the Malawi cichlid Home Page which IMO is one of the best
all around cichlid sites.

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com...wi10.html#soda

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.
R.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:N2I1c.1054$m56.217@newsfe1-win...
I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular
pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked
to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a
particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?
Regards,
Richard.

baking soda , regardless of how much you add will only max your PH out at
about 8.3-8.4 and raise your KH at the same time. They are linked because
buffering your water with baking soda to raise the PH will raise the KH
and
lowering your hardness (KH ) say using R/O water will lower your PH
values.
You can create your own table by measuring your KH and PH and they will
stay
consistent with each other. So you start with a known Ph and Kh which is
your current tank water. Add one tablespoon of baking soda , wait for a
half
hour or so and take another measurement of both. Write the info down. If
your still far off from where you want to be ( I have no idea how big your
tank is) you can add another tbls and take another measurement. As you get
close to the parameters you want you may only add one tsp. You keep tract
of
the amounts to get your entire tank to the levels you want then when you
do
a water change you will know how much to add to the new water. Check out
the
link below, from the Malawi cichlid Home Page which IMO is one of the best
all around cichlid sites.

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com...wi10.html#soda

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
...
He did say they aren't linked "1:1", I think he means that low pH and low
KH
tend to go together, but there is not a predictable relationship (unless I
guess, you get very scientific about it?!).
R.



you can have very hard water with a high KH and a very low PH. Using CO2
will lower your Ph but not your KH which is what people like me with planted
tanks do all the time. My 77g tank has a PH of 6.5 and a KH of 70 PPM and GH
of 100. Basically the PH of your water is determined by the combination of
CO2 and KH . You can take water right out of the tap and the gas content
will be high and your PH will be low. Add an airstone to it and remeasure
and the PH will be much higher as the gas content is expelled. Anyway it can
get very confusing at times but I think you can figure it out.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

Ok, you got very scientific about it ;)
I have a lot of reading to do tonight!
R.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
...
He did say they aren't linked "1:1", I think he means that low pH and
low
KH
tend to go together, but there is not a predictable relationship (unless
I
guess, you get very scientific about it?!).
R.



you can have very hard water with a high KH and a very low PH. Using CO2
will lower your Ph but not your KH which is what people like me with
planted
tanks do all the time. My 77g tank has a PH of 6.5 and a KH of 70 PPM and
GH
of 100. Basically the PH of your water is determined by the combination
of
CO2 and KH . You can take water right out of the tap and the gas content
will be high and your PH will be low. Add an airstone to it and remeasure
and the PH will be much higher as the gas content is expelled. Anyway it
can
get very confusing at times but I think you can figure it out.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
...
Ok, you got very scientific about it ;)
I have a lot of reading to do tonight!
R.

I also participate in an Aquarium Plants group where the relationship of
CO2/KH /GH and PH is one of the most common topics. There are as many
different opinions on these topics as topics themselves!!. Here is another
link to some stuff on the Krib site which you may as well read while your at
it.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html#reference

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:25:35 -0600, "Rick"
wrote:


you read those articles and came to the conclusion that PH and KH are not
linked??

I think you may want to take your time and re-read what I said.

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:05 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.

I would -never- add tablespoons of baking soda at a time, what a
horrid idea! You run the risk of raising the pH and KH too high, too
quickly, and causing undue stress or even death.

Read the rift lake buffer recipe from cichlid-forum and follow the
instructions on creating your own mix that is applicable to your tap
water chemistry, and add it slowly.

As well, while your adding baking soda, you might as well add epsom
salt (raise the GH) and marine salt to add some trace minerals.

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:05 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.

I would -never- add tablespoons of baking soda at a time, what a
horrid idea! You run the risk of raising the pH and KH too high, too
quickly, and causing undue stress or even death.

Read the rift lake buffer recipe from cichlid-forum and follow the
instructions on creating your own mix that is applicable to your tap
water chemistry, and add it slowly.

As well, while your adding baking soda, you might as well add epsom
salt (raise the GH) and marine salt to add some trace minerals.


really, so if you had say a 240 gallon tank with a Ph of 7.5 and wanted to
raise it to say 8.2 you would not add a tablespoon or two of baking soda to
begin with and then work from there?. You could dump the whole box of baking
soda into a tank and you cannot raise the pH beyond 8.2 to 8.4 however you
can raise the KH. For example my 66 gallon Mbuna tank started out with a Ph
of 7.5 and Kh of 70. I wanted to raise the PH to 8.0 and KH to the 140-170
range. Following the instructions of George Reclos (chemist by trade and one
of the people responsible for setting up the Malawi Cichlid site) I added 2
tsps of baking soda and then took some more readings. I then added another
tsp so I'm up to one tbsp in a 66 g tank to get it to the parameters I
wanted. The original poster has not mentioned the size of his tank and when
I gave the example of adding a tbsp of baking soda I pointed out that I had
no idea how big his tank is. I'm pretty confident from reading his posts
that he is a pretty intelligent guy that can figure out if he is dealing
with a 20 g tank he is not going to dump in 2 tbsp of baking soda however if
he has that big big tank then it is going to take more than a tbsp to raise
his PH depending on his starting point. You provided him links for reference
and so did I. I think he can figure out the rest. BTW in my case with my 66
I add 2.5 tsp of baking soda or almost a tbsp at every water change to keep
it in the area where I want it. Good advice on adding the salts, I do add
Epsom salt along with my baking soda. If I had Tanganykan cichlids I would
probably add trace but I don't find it necessary with Mbuana's.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:05 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.

I would -never- add tablespoons of baking soda at a time, what a
horrid idea! You run the risk of raising the pH and KH too high, too
quickly, and causing undue stress or even death.

Read the rift lake buffer recipe from cichlid-forum and follow the
instructions on creating your own mix that is applicable to your tap
water chemistry, and add it slowly.

As well, while your adding baking soda, you might as well add epsom
salt (raise the GH) and marine salt to add some trace minerals.




I will wrap up my involvement in this thread with a couple of last points
seeing as how you and I seem to have gotten somewhat away from the original
posters question, which if you read back was a pretty simple one. The
example I gave about adding tbsp of baking soda was just that, an example. I
could have said to use a pinch, tsp etc etc. It was simply an example. You
suggest that he add Epsom salts and marine salts for trace without even
knowing what kind of fish the man has. The only hint might be that he
referenced a site with information about Oscars which if that is what he has
then he does not need marine or epsom salts in his tank. I also have mixed
feelings about PH swings causing stress and death to fish. My personal
experience does not support that fact. For example my planted tank has a ph
of 6.5-6.6. I have 35 aquariums and breed a variety of fish with different
water conditions from peat filtered water, r/o water , straight tap water
and buffered water for my Africans. I have taken livebearers from their
tank, PH 7.7 , netted them out and put them directly into my planted tank
and never have had a problem. I have CO2 injection in my planted tank and
ran out awhile back. Before I noticed my PH had risen to 7.3. I had my tank
filled and hooked things back up however set my bubble rate too high and 12
hours later I measure my PH with my electronic meter and have a PH of 6.2 ,
less than 12 hours later I had it up to 6.8 and then back to 6.5-6.6. Not a
single loss of a fish. I breed 15 different varieties of Corydoras and
Aspidoras. To induce spawning activity I do large 50-75% water changes. Most
of their tanks are neutral or slightly acidic water which gets replaced with
straight dechlorinated tap water reducing the water temp by about 5 degrees
and immediately raising the PH by at least .5 to .6. Never a problem but
lots of spawning activity. Famed Discus breeder Jack Wattley in order to
treat a bacterial problem in his fish reduced the Ph of his water from 6
down to 3.8 , doing so in .5 changes over 12 hours and then back up again
with no problems. So what does it all mean, simply what works for me might
not work for you. Take the info. provided which in the case of the original
poster was a lot more than he asked for , read, read and read more and make
your own decisions, find out what works for you and stick with it.

Regards.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:vgC1c.187$re1.61@newsfe1-win...
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is
one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,
pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH
tends to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since
if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the
6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium
carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as
the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.

Having your pH on the low side, if that is what comes out of your tap is
ok, (if your fish is an Oscar). If the pH is much lower than your tap
pH, then something in your tank is acidifying the water, and it does this
by first bringing your kH to zero. This is why a kH test kit is useful.
If your kH checks out at 4dkH or higher, your pH will be solid (it might
be low, but it's stable). If your kH is much higher, then your pH will
be solid to the point of being difficult to change. If your kH is low,
(2-3 dkH), then it is susceptible to pH crashes, (this is when the pH
drops to very low 4s and 5s). Your strategy depends on the difference
between your source pH and your tank pH. For a more accurate reading,
let your tap sample air-out for a day before checking the pH.

If there is a difference in pH, then you have to determine why. Things
which typically pull your kH and then your pH down acidifying the water
in an Oscar tank is their solid waste. Break out the gravel vacuum. I
have a heavily loaded Oscar tank at work and we gravel vac every 3 days,
otherwise I would have to feed them a lot less food, and you know how
Oscars like their food ;~)

If the cause of your low pH is from detritus rotting in your gravel, then
the pH up or baking soda will only be temporary chemical treatments for
the side effects, and not the root cause. The effect of the chemicals
will vanish with water changes, and their use will be detrimental, as it
will cause a see-saw effect in the pH.

NetMax

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:vgC1c.187$re1.61@newsfe1-win...
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is
one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,
pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH
tends to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since
if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the
6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium
carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as
the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.

Having your pH on the low side, if that is what comes out of your tap is
ok, (if your fish is an Oscar). If the pH is much lower than your tap
pH, then something in your tank is acidifying the water, and it does this
by first bringing your kH to zero. This is why a kH test kit is useful.
If your kH checks out at 4dkH or higher, your pH will be solid (it might
be low, but it's stable). If your kH is much higher, then your pH will
be solid to the point of being difficult to change. If your kH is low,
(2-3 dkH), then it is susceptible to pH crashes, (this is when the pH
drops to very low 4s and 5s). Your strategy depends on the difference
between your source pH and your tank pH. For a more accurate reading,
let your tap sample air-out for a day before checking the pH.

If there is a difference in pH, then you have to determine why. Things
which typically pull your kH and then your pH down acidifying the water
in an Oscar tank is their solid waste. Break out the gravel vacuum. I
have a heavily loaded Oscar tank at work and we gravel vac every 3 days,
otherwise I would have to feed them a lot less food, and you know how
Oscars like their food ;~)

If the cause of your low pH is from detritus rotting in your gravel, then
the pH up or baking soda will only be temporary chemical treatments for
the side effects, and not the root cause. The effect of the chemicals
will vanish with water changes, and their use will be detrimental, as it
will cause a see-saw effect in the pH.

NetMax



in a fully stocked tank with buffered water the Kh in my case of 140 will
remain constant for about 15 days before it starts to crash. Fish waste will
not saturate the buffer unless the tank is overstocked or overfed (and we
all know that no one over feeds!!). Water changes done normally on a
biweekly basis and rebuffering will maintain a healthy environment for the
fish however leaving water changes too long will result in unnecessary
swings in hardness and PH values. So avoid extremes and even though I have
not had the experience of others with large PH swings causing stress and
illness and or death with my fish I certainly advocate trying to maintain a
healthy and consistent environment for our animals.
Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:vgC1c.187$re1.61@newsfe1-win...
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit
is
one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite,
nitrate,
pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH
tends to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is,
since
if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the
6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium
carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH
aslong as
the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.

Having your pH on the low side, if that is what comes out of your tap
is
ok, (if your fish is an Oscar). If the pH is much lower than your
tap
pH, then something in your tank is acidifying the water, and it does
this
by first bringing your kH to zero. This is why a kH test kit is
useful.
If your kH checks out at 4dkH or higher, your pH will be solid (it
might
be low, but it's stable). If your kH is much higher, then your pH
will
be solid to the point of being difficult to change. If your kH is
low,
(2-3 dkH), then it is susceptible to pH crashes, (this is when the pH
drops to very low 4s and 5s). Your strategy depends on the
difference
between your source pH and your tank pH. For a more accurate
reading,
let your tap sample air-out for a day before checking the pH.

If there is a difference in pH, then you have to determine why.
Things
which typically pull your kH and then your pH down acidifying the
water
in an Oscar tank is their solid waste. Break out the gravel vacuum.
I
have a heavily loaded Oscar tank at work and we gravel vac every 3
days,
otherwise I would have to feed them a lot less food, and you know how
Oscars like their food ;~)

If the cause of your low pH is from detritus rotting in your gravel,
then
the pH up or baking soda will only be temporary chemical treatments
for
the side effects, and not the root cause. The effect of the
chemicals
will vanish with water changes, and their use will be detrimental, as
it
will cause a see-saw effect in the pH.

NetMax



in a fully stocked tank with buffered water the Kh in my case of 140
will
remain constant for about 15 days before it starts to crash. Fish waste
will
not saturate the buffer unless the tank is overstocked or overfed (and
we
all know that no one over feeds!!). Water changes done normally on a
biweekly basis and rebuffering will maintain a healthy environment for
the
fish however leaving water changes too long will result in unnecessary
swings in hardness and PH values. So avoid extremes and even though I
have
not had the experience of others with large PH swings causing stress
and
illness and or death with my fish I certainly advocate trying to
maintain a
healthy and consistent environment for our animals.
Rick

Rick, you obviously have a handle on what you are doing (and different
recipes can & will achieve the same results), but I'm at a loss as to why
your kH seems to drop so quickly. Wouldn't that be indicative of a
significant amount of detritus rotting somewhere in the system? What
consumes your almost 8dkH in only 2 weeks? Is your source water so kH
poor that your baking soda is going out with the water changes?

NetMax

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"NetMax" wrote in message
...



in a fully stocked tank with buffered water the Kh in my case of 140
will
remain constant for about 15 days before it starts to crash. Fish waste
will
not saturate the buffer unless the tank is overstocked or overfed (and
we
all know that no one over feeds!!). Water changes done normally on a
biweekly basis and rebuffering will maintain a healthy environment for
the
fish however leaving water changes too long will result in unnecessary
swings in hardness and PH values. So avoid extremes and even though I
have
not had the experience of others with large PH swings causing stress
and
illness and or death with my fish I certainly advocate trying to
maintain a
healthy and consistent environment for our animals.
Rick

Rick, you obviously have a handle on what you are doing (and different
recipes can & will achieve the same results), but I'm at a loss as to why
your kH seems to drop so quickly. Wouldn't that be indicative of a
significant amount of detritus rotting somewhere in the system? What
consumes your almost 8dkH in only 2 weeks? Is your source water so kH
poor that your baking soda is going out with the water changes?

NetMax



it doesn't, I'm trying to read back to where or if I said my Kh drops
quickly. You're right on the nose where you say that the rotting detritus
will eventually cause the buffering capacity of the tank water to crash.
After about 2 weeks without doing a water change or gravel vac, especially
in cichlid tanks it starts to build up and without removing it you are going
to loose that buffering. No different from those who experience very low ph
values and can't understand why until you find out that they only vacuum the
gravel and do water changes about once every 6 weeks!!. For me I do weekly
water changes and by weekly gravel vac and filter cleaning so things stay
pretty stable. I recently have been allowing my Ph to drop back to the
normal tap water range which has also reduced my KH values however I can
tell you that it has had no negative impact on my Malawi fishes. In fact I
have 3 holding L caeruleus and a holding S fryeri. Sometimes I think we make
this hobby too difficult and fool around with the water too much. In your
store do you provide buffers for your Cichlids or just go with the tap
water?. I know in Winnipeg the LFS simply use the tap water.

Rick

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
snip
Sometimes I think we make
this hobby too difficult and fool around with the water too much. In
your
store do you provide buffers for your Cichlids or just go with the tap
water?. I know in Winnipeg the LFS simply use the tap water.

Rick

LOL, probably right. I just use tap water. We are on very soft 7.7pH.
I keep my Africans on coral substrate with tufa stones, driftwood, Java
ferns and Hornwort for company. The coral/tufa brings my dkH/dgH up a
couple of degrees, but nothing too significant (my rate of water changes
tends to dilute everything pretty quickly). Using the coral and tufa
triggers people to ask why, so in case anyone forgets, we can explain
that they prefer harder water. I've got Alies, Nyerei, Labs, Rustys and
some Peacocks packing (Red Shoulder I think). However, when I bring any
Africans home to my hard 8.4pH, their colors look much nicer.

NetMax

KH Test Kit - really needed?
 

Thanks,
After reading this, I will get a KH test kit!
Regards,
R.

"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:vgC1c.187$re1.61@newsfe1-win...
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is
one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,
pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH
tends to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since
if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the
6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium
carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as
the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.

Having your pH on the low side, if that is what comes out of your tap is
ok, (if your fish is an Oscar). If the pH is much lower than your tap
pH, then something in your tank is acidifying the water, and it does this
by first bringing your kH to zero. This is why a kH test kit is useful.
If your kH checks out at 4dkH or higher, your pH will be solid (it might
be low, but it's stable). If your kH is much higher, then your pH will
be solid to the point of being difficult to change. If your kH is low,
(2-3 dkH), then it is susceptible to pH crashes, (this is when the pH
drops to very low 4s and 5s). Your strategy depends on the difference
between your source pH and your tank pH. For a more accurate reading,
let your tap sample air-out for a day before checking the pH.

If there is a difference in pH, then you have to determine why. Things
which typically pull your kH and then your pH down acidifying the water
in an Oscar tank is their solid waste. Break out the gravel vacuum. I
have a heavily loaded Oscar tank at work and we gravel vac every 3 days,
otherwise I would have to feed them a lot less food, and you know how
Oscars like their food ;~)

If the cause of your low pH is from detritus rotting in your gravel, then
the pH up or baking soda will only be temporary chemical treatments for
the side effects, and not the root cause. The effect of the chemicals
will vanish with water changes, and their use will be detrimental, as it
will cause a see-saw effect in the pH.

NetMax