Top Fin Decorations
 

I reported problems earlier with my fish (local, freshwater, wild fish)
flashing against various surfaces even though the water parameters appear
okay. At that time, I also pointed out that the problem seems noticeably
worse after cleaning the tank, which consists of vacuuming the gravel and
replacing the water removed.

Now, I'm noticing that when I clean the tank and temporarily pull out the
decorations that they really smell. They smell like a mix between the black
mud you find in ponds, and gasoline. I've got three large decorations in a
125 gallon tank and they all seem to smell about the same.

It could simply be that waste was trapped under or within these decorations.
But I can't help but wonder if there was some chemical reaction that was
helping to irritate my fish. I realize Top Fin is a cheap brand, but they
sell this stuff by the truckload and I would certainly have expected that
they were safe for fish.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

Jonathan Wood wrote in message ...
I reported problems earlier with my fish (local, freshwater, wild fish)
flashing against various surfaces even though the water parameters appear
okay. At that time, I also pointed out that the problem seems noticeably
worse after cleaning the tank, which consists of vacuuming the gravel and
replacing the water removed.

Now, I'm noticing that when I clean the tank and temporarily pull out the
decorations that they really smell. They smell like a mix between the black
mud you find in ponds, and gasoline. I've got three large decorations in a
125 gallon tank and they all seem to smell about the same.

It could simply be that waste was trapped under or within these
decorations.
But I can't help but wonder if there was some chemical reaction that was
helping to irritate my fish. I realize Top Fin is a cheap brand, but they
sell this stuff by the truckload and I would certainly have expected that
they were safe for fish.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Jonathan

interested to hear if your fish are still flashing?

Top Fin Decorations
 

|| I reported problems earlier with my fish (local, freshwater, wild
|| fish) flashing against various surfaces even though the water
|| parameters appear okay. At that time, I also pointed out that the
|| problem seems noticeably worse after cleaning the tank, which
|| consists of vacuuming the gravel and replacing the water removed.
||
|| Now, I'm noticing that when I clean the tank and temporarily pull
|| out the decorations that they really smell. They smell like a mix
|| between the black mud you find in ponds, and gasoline. I've got
|| three large decorations in a 125 gallon tank and they all seem to
|| smell about the same.
||
|| It could simply be that waste was trapped under or within these
|| decorations. But I can't help but wonder if there was some chemical
|| reaction that was helping to irritate my fish. I realize Top Fin is
|| a cheap brand, but they sell this stuff by the truckload and I would
|| certainly have expected that they were safe for fish.
||
|| Anyone have any thoughts on this?
||
|| Jonathan

Well... that does kinda sound weird... but my experience with plastic
plants, didn't last long... as i only used them to transition to real
plants..

I'd stop using them, period... just don't put them back...see what happens
in a couple weeks...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

Top Fin Decorations
 

RedForeman,

Well... that does kinda sound weird... but my experience with plastic
plants, didn't last long... as i only used them to transition to real
plants..

Actually, it isn't the plants that smell. It's larger decorations, designed
to look like pieces of wood, that smell strange.

Surely this has come up before if there is a problem. I'll try searching the
web.

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

Paul,

interested to hear if your fish are still flashing?

Well, I've been busy and haven't done anything to the tank for a while--I
even allowed the water level to fall a couple of inches. For the most part,
the fish have been looking a bit better with one notable exception (a green
sunfish that mostly scrapes the same location but shows no sign of
parasites), which has now been released back to the wild.

However, yesterday, I vacuumed the gravel again and top the water level off.
Although it's not too bad, my large mouth bass are definitely looking a bit
more irritated than normal.

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

"Jonathan Wood" wrote in message
nk.net...
RedForeman,

Well... that does kinda sound weird... but my experience with plastic
plants, didn't last long... as i only used them to transition to real
plants..

Actually, it isn't the plants that smell. It's larger decorations,
designed
to look like pieces of wood, that smell strange.

Surely this has come up before if there is a problem. I'll try
searching the
web.

Jonathan

I have no comments or experience with the particular product that you
have, but since these products are not required to be tested against any
mandatory safety specifications, manufacturers will (and do) try out
different suppliers. These suppliers will experiment with different
recipes for the substances used to colour and seal the product (ideally
searching for a single application, colour and sealer). Don't make too
many assumptions. If they had a bad recipe (or just made an error in
preparing a batch), or the product was improperly prepared/primed, then
the amount of bad product might not be enough to register much of a
reaction to read about on the web.

In any investigation, remove all variables and then replace them one by
one. It might be interesting to put the artificial wood in a pail with
some minnows for a few weeks. Good luck.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Top Fin Decorations
 

NetMax,

I have no comments or experience with the particular product that you
have, but since these products are not required to be tested against any
mandatory safety specifications, manufacturers will (and do) try out
different suppliers. These suppliers will experiment with different
recipes for the substances used to colour and seal the product (ideally
searching for a single application, colour and sealer). Don't make too
many assumptions. If they had a bad recipe (or just made an error in
preparing a batch), or the product was improperly prepared/primed, then
the amount of bad product might not be enough to register much of a
reaction to read about on the web.

Yeah, I couldn't find anything. The only assumption I'm really making is
that they are selling these by the boatload and if there is a problem, I'd
expect them to find out pretty quick.

In any investigation, remove all variables and then replace them one by
one. It might be interesting to put the artificial wood in a pail with
some minnows for a few weeks. Good luck.

I'm definitely thinking about pulling all of them out during my next water
change. Unfortunately, the tank will look pretty bare. Also, the problem is
pretty subtle and it would be hard to determine when it had in fact gone
away. Particularly since I would probably not do a 100% water change at that
time and chemicals could possibly still be in the water.

I guess I'm curious if other folks' artificial decorations (non-plants) tend
to smell strange. I don't know if that's normal or not.

Thanks.

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

"Jonathan Wood" wrote in message
hlink.net...
NetMax,

I have no comments or experience with the particular product that you
have, but since these products are not required to be tested against
any
mandatory safety specifications, manufacturers will (and do) try out
different suppliers. These suppliers will experiment with different
recipes for the substances used to colour and seal the product
(ideally
searching for a single application, colour and sealer). Don't make
too
many assumptions. If they had a bad recipe (or just made an error in
preparing a batch), or the product was improperly prepared/primed,
then
the amount of bad product might not be enough to register much of a
reaction to read about on the web.

Yeah, I couldn't find anything. The only assumption I'm really making
is
that they are selling these by the boatload and if there is a problem,
I'd
expect them to find out pretty quick.

In any investigation, remove all variables and then replace them one
by
one. It might be interesting to put the artificial wood in a pail
with
some minnows for a few weeks. Good luck.

I'm definitely thinking about pulling all of them out during my next
water
change. Unfortunately, the tank will look pretty bare. Also, the
problem is
pretty subtle and it would be hard to determine when it had in fact
gone
away. Particularly since I would probably not do a 100% water change at
that
time and chemicals could possibly still be in the water.

I guess I'm curious if other folks' artificial decorations (non-plants)
tend
to smell strange. I don't know if that's normal or not.

Thanks.

Jonathan


And what do you think that they would do if they found out? Their reps
would tell the stores to refund or replace the product if anyone comes in
with a complain. What else would they do? It might have been a batch
problem, so the quantity affected might be very limited (if it's even the
artificial wood and not something else).
--
www.NetMax.tk

Top Fin Decorations
 

I have 3 large artifical stumps that when i bought them they were a greenish
color and in less than a year they are almost white. most of the paint has
fallen off. I have never had a problem with my water or the way it looks, i
know it makes no senes to me either. I no longer use them because of the
way it looks now. But they did not stink that i can remember.
"NetMax" wrote in message
m...
"Jonathan Wood" wrote in message
hlink.net...
NetMax,

I have no comments or experience with the particular product that you
have, but since these products are not required to be tested against
any
mandatory safety specifications, manufacturers will (and do) try out
different suppliers. These suppliers will experiment with different
recipes for the substances used to colour and seal the product
(ideally
searching for a single application, colour and sealer). Don't make
too
many assumptions. If they had a bad recipe (or just made an error in
preparing a batch), or the product was improperly prepared/primed,
then
the amount of bad product might not be enough to register much of a
reaction to read about on the web.

Yeah, I couldn't find anything. The only assumption I'm really making
is
that they are selling these by the boatload and if there is a problem,
I'd
expect them to find out pretty quick.

In any investigation, remove all variables and then replace them one
by
one. It might be interesting to put the artificial wood in a pail
with
some minnows for a few weeks. Good luck.

I'm definitely thinking about pulling all of them out during my next
water
change. Unfortunately, the tank will look pretty bare. Also, the
problem is
pretty subtle and it would be hard to determine when it had in fact
gone
away. Particularly since I would probably not do a 100% water change at
that
time and chemicals could possibly still be in the water.

I guess I'm curious if other folks' artificial decorations (non-plants)
tend
to smell strange. I don't know if that's normal or not.

Thanks.

Jonathan


And what do you think that they would do if they found out? Their reps
would tell the stores to refund or replace the product if anyone comes in
with a complain. What else would they do? It might have been a batch
problem, so the quantity affected might be very limited (if it's even the
artificial wood and not something else).
--
www.NetMax.tk

Top Fin Decorations
 

NetMax,

And what do you think that they would do if they found out? Their reps
would tell the stores to refund or replace the product if anyone comes in
with a complain. What else would they do? It might have been a batch
problem, so the quantity affected might be very limited (if it's even the
artificial wood and not something else).

Well, the smell comes from a couple of different pieces so I can rule out a
bad batch. If they made a few and a few were returned, I don't think
anything would come of it. But if they were sold by the boatload, which Top
Fin products are, and there was a problem, I would think they would rush to
find a way to stop the lost revenues. Even a small percent of complaints
from a large enough market would be a substantial amount of lost income.

At any rate, although no one's said anything about, I'll just assume no one
else is seeing these types of problems and it's just me.

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

"Jonathan Wood" wrote in message
nk.net...
NetMax,

And what do you think that they would do if they found out? Their
reps
would tell the stores to refund or replace the product if anyone
comes in
with a complain. What else would they do? It might have been a
batch
problem, so the quantity affected might be very limited (if it's even
the
artificial wood and not something else).

Well, the smell comes from a couple of different pieces so I can rule
out a
bad batch. If they made a few and a few were returned, I don't think
anything would come of it. But if they were sold by the boatload, which
Top
Fin products are, and there was a problem, I would think they would
rush to
find a way to stop the lost revenues. Even a small percent of
complaints
from a large enough market would be a substantial amount of lost
income.

I think you over-estimate the effect of a single product. These
manufacturers could lose 100% of a product line of decorations for
months, and it would not affect them. With manufacturing, at any given
moment, there is always something wrong with something, it's just not
advertized. Deal with the returns as they come in, in a manner which
leaves the customer happy.

Note that a batch problem can be in the coating, so it would affect a
number of different decorations which were all processed at the same
facility.

At any rate, although no one's said anything about, I'll just assume no
one
else is seeing these types of problems and it's just me.

Again, just my humble opinion, but the % of hobbyists who have this
decoration X the number who remember they got it from Topfin X the number
who got the coating batch (an assumption) X the number who noticed the
problem X the number who have computers X the number who read and post in
the newsgroups or forums might add up to a small number. We sometimes
think we are part of a huge community, but it's actually much smaller
than we think. Compared to the general public, this small community is
very well educated and more likely to research the root cause. Others
would take the decoration out, smell it and throw it away (end of story
;~)

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just presenting a different
perspective.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

NetMax,

I think you over-estimate the effect of a single product. These
manufacturers could lose 100% of a product line of decorations for
months, and it would not affect them.

Well, I'm not trying to argue the point but, being somewhat of a business
person myself, I view this it a little differently. They have an obligation
to their shareholders if there is something they can do to fix a product
that is resulting in many returns.

Note that a batch problem can be in the coating, so it would affect a
number of different decorations which were all processed at the same
facility.

A batch suggests a number of items that were also processed within the same
period of time. That would not apply in my case.

Again, just my humble opinion, but the % of hobbyists who have this
decoration X the number who remember they got it from Topfin X the number
who got the coating batch (an assumption) X the number who noticed the
problem X the number who have computers X the number who read and post in
the newsgroups or forums might add up to a small number. We sometimes
think we are part of a huge community, but it's actually much smaller
than we think. Compared to the general public, this small community is
very well educated and more likely to research the root cause. Others
would take the decoration out, smell it and throw it away (end of story
;~)

Maybe. I will try some tests with my next water change. It sure would suck
to have this large 125 gallon tank with nothing but plant decorations.

Thanks.

Jonathan

Top Fin Decorations
 

"Jonathan Wood" wrote in message
ink.net...
Maybe. I will try some tests with my next water change. It sure would suck
to have this large 125 gallon tank with nothing but plant decorations.

Thanks.

Jonathan



Why not ditch the fake stuff replace with Mopani Wood? Tried and true. Looks
way nicer also. Or check someplace like http://www.aquariumdriftwood.com/ .

Top Fin Decorations
 

I don't know what Mopani Wood is, but I'll check out the link.

Thanks.

Jonathan

"Wm Hopkins" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jonathan Wood" wrote in message
ink.net...
Maybe. I will try some tests with my next water change. It sure would
suck
to have this large 125 gallon tank with nothing but plant decorations.

Thanks.

Jonathan



Why not ditch the fake stuff replace with Mopani Wood? Tried and true.
Looks
way nicer also. Or check someplace like http://www.aquariumdriftwood.com/
..