R13 refrigerant replacement
 

Greetings, fellow humans.
I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
"R13". And the a/c filling shops around here all claim never having
heard of such. Their response is along the lines: "It's R12, not R13.
There is no such thing as R13".
However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.

So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
Previa up with?

- t

Tuomas Rantasalo > writes:

> Greetings, fellow humans.
> I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
> badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
> "R13". And the a/c filling shops around here all claim never having
> heard of such. Their response is along the lines: "It's R12, not
> R13. There is no such thing as R13".
>
> However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
> speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
>
> joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.
>
> So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
> commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
> Previa up with?
>
>
> - t

Perhaps the last part of "R134a" has been lost?

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:23:13 GMT, Tuomas Rantasalo
> wrote:

>However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
>speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
>joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.


There is no printing on the instrument panel to indicate what type
refrigerant the car uses. We can't tell you what the R13 stands for
without seeing a picture of it (and probably not even then).

Your system came from the factory with R12. Since R12 isn't as common
as it once was it may have been converted to R134a.

You **should** be able to tell which refrigerant is being used by
looking at the high and low pressure ports. R12 has a screw on
fitting that looks very much like the one on your tires.
R134a has a larger fitting and is not threaded

Look at http://www.aircondition.com/dsmobileac/ for a picture of the
two.

Systems don't just use refrigerant up. It is leasking somewhere. It
would be a good idea to have the system leak tested, repaired and then
filled.

R13 is/was used for flash freezing and to my knowledge was never used
in an automotive application.

Steve B.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Tuomas Rantasalo wrote:

> I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
> badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
> "R13".

No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.

> However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
> speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
> joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.

What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything to do
with your aircon system? For that matter, if you look closely at the type
approval markings on your door windows, you'll see "R43" printed there. By
your logic (ahem), you should be out there trying to get your A/C filled
with R43, right?

> So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
> commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
> Previa up with?

Originally, your '92 came with R12. It is possible somebody has converted
it to R134a. The instrument cluster is not the appropriate place to look
for the refrigerant ID label, which is under the hood.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:
>
>No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.
>

Incorrect. There is no such thing as a drop in replacement for R12
but there is a refrigerant named R13.

R13: chlorotrifluoromethane
CFC13 is a supper Iow tempreture refrigerant, used in frosting unit,
in which the tempeture scope is -75~C.

Typical Properties:
Formula: CCIF3
Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): -81.4
Freezing Point (~C): -181.1
Critical Temperature (~C): 28.9
Critical Pressure (KPa): 3868.0
Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1319.9
ODP: 1.0
GWP: 17.5

Package and Storage
Filling in 10, 13.6, 20, 50kg cylinders. It should be stored in cool,
dry and ventilated place and kept away from sun-
light and rain.

"Steve B." > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> > wrote:
> >
> >No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.
> >
>
> Incorrect. There is no such thing as a drop in replacement for R12
> but there is a refrigerant named R13.
>
> R13: chlorotrifluoromethane
> CFC13 is a supper Iow tempreture refrigerant, used in frosting unit,
> in which the tempeture scope is -75~C.
>
> Typical Properties:
> Formula: CCIF3
> Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): -81.4
> Freezing Point (~C): -181.1
> Critical Temperature (~C): 28.9
> Critical Pressure (KPa): 3868.0
> Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1319.9
> ODP: 1.0
> GWP: 17.5
>
> Package and Storage
> Filling in 10, 13.6, 20, 50kg cylinders. It should be stored in cool,
> dry and ventilated place and kept away from sun-
> light and rain.


Correct, Steve. It DOES exist. I even found some chat where conversions
from R12 to R13
were being discussed. I somewhat doubt that the OP has this in his system,
but you never know
who might have done what to it at some stage.

"Daniel J. Stern" > writes in article ch.edu> dated Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400:
>No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.

http://www.refrigerant-supply.com/references/r-13.htm
R-13 is Chlorotrifluoromethane
F
|
F-C-Cl
|
F

As opposed to R-12, which is Dichlorodifluoromethane
Cl
|
F-C-Cl
|
F

I'm not saying R-13 refrigerant has ever been used in cars, but it does exist.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything
>to do with your aircon system?

My old Renault R12 used R12... :-)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQtbghQIk7T39FC4ZEQLr1wCg5oYjTBF52AIsET+CgXRbZl JL1RwAnA8u
4wKXcHKME7IKiOrb3smXQCER
=IDBJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, ~^Johnny^~ wrote:

> >What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything to
> >do with your aircon system?
>
> My old Renault R12 used R12... :-)

I wonder if US-spec Renault R5s used R-LeCar?

x-no-archive: yes

For what its worth, R13 was (and may still be ) used in vapor traps for
vacume systems typicaly found in laboratories (freeze dryers, etc). The idea
being to remove moisture before it gets to the vacume pump-- some cascade
systems got to around -120 C as I recall (I serviced these units about 20
years ago and as I am an old fart, my memory is not too good anymore---I
believe the refrigerant I used was actualy called R13B1)



"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
>
> > >What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything to
> > >do with your aircon system?
> >
> > My old Renault R12 used R12... :-)
>
> I wonder if US-spec Renault R5s used R-LeCar?