Sick Mollie
 

Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had risen to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill

Gill Passman wrote:
Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had risen to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill


Did you add an ammonia detoxifier like AmQuel or Ammo Lock? As you know
0.1 ppm free ammonia is quite toxic at pH 8.5. Water changes and cycled
filter medium sound quite sensible. I'd also add 1 tsp/5 gal salt in
case you get a bit of nitrite as well. The mollies will appreciate some
salt anyway.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...
Gill Passman wrote:
Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of
the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and
found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had
risen to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was
physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change
and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down
and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely
the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill


Did you add an ammonia detoxifier like AmQuel or Ammo Lock? As you know
0.1 ppm free ammonia is quite toxic at pH 8.5. Water changes and cycled
filter medium sound quite sensible. I'd also add 1 tsp/5 gal salt in
case you get a bit of nitrite as well. The mollies will appreciate some
salt anyway.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Too late - she's gone :-(

Unfortunately I didn't have any ammonia detoxifier.

Now I'll have to concentrate on ensuring that the water quality gets good
again for the rest of the fish. They all look quite happy this morning....

The nitrite reading was 0 but I'm going to closely monitor that. I'm going
to recheck the ammonia and pH this morning and we will do another water chan
ge depending on the readings.

Have no idea what caused the spike. This tank has been stable since late
September last year. The only thing that we did this week was clean the
algae off the front using a magnetic scraper rather than the usual brush.

Thanks for the update Elaine...

On Fri, 20 May 2005 22:53:20 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had risen to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill



The rise in pH suggests the need for more frequent partial water
changes. However, Mollies are my most disease prone fish I have. I
wouldn't be too concerned other than the normal guilt trips, but I
sure would urge your son to do several partials a week. The pH should
be the same as your tap water if the changes are done often enough.

One advantage to small, frequent water changes, less need to worry
about chlorine. A small percentage change means the fresh water is
diluted more, thus less need to make any chemical additions. I have 5
tanks, largest 75 gallons, and would hate to go through the water
adjustment procedures. When I got my first tank, the 75 gallon, I was
trying to adjust ph, my tap water is 7.8, and accidentally made the
water acid. I lost several fish within minutes.

As great as it is to have live bearers, they are colorful and always
the chance to have young ones, in my experience, they are the most
likely to have problems. (Now, I consider those fry part of the
problem, so the boys and girls are now in separate tanks)

dick

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 May 2005 22:53:20 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and
found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had risen
to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was
physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change
and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely
the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill



The rise in pH suggests the need for more frequent partial water
changes. However, Mollies are my most disease prone fish I have. I
wouldn't be too concerned other than the normal guilt trips, but I
sure would urge your son to do several partials a week. The pH should
be the same as your tap water if the changes are done often enough.

One advantage to small, frequent water changes, less need to worry
about chlorine. A small percentage change means the fresh water is
diluted more, thus less need to make any chemical additions. I have 5
tanks, largest 75 gallons, and would hate to go through the water
adjustment procedures. When I got my first tank, the 75 gallon, I was
trying to adjust ph, my tap water is 7.8, and accidentally made the
water acid. I lost several fish within minutes.

As great as it is to have live bearers, they are colorful and always
the chance to have young ones, in my experience, they are the most
likely to have problems. (Now, I consider those fry part of the
problem, so the boys and girls are now in separate tanks)

dick

Tested the water this morning and everything is back to normal - phew.....we
tested his other tank (30gall) and found a trace of ammonia in that one as
well (0.6) the pH was it's usual tap water 8 - starting to doubt last nights
reading. Must be down to the water changes - I need to supervise more and
keep to the same regime as I do with my 4 tanks.

The 30gall is rather over populated at the moment as it has been used to
grow out some Mollie and Platy fry - these will be off to the shop either
today or tomorrow although we will probably try and keep some of the Mollies
if possible (there are 8 of them). The "normal" inhabitants would be 5
Harlequins, 2 Glowlight Tetras, 2 Pearl Gouramis and a Plec....the plan had
been to add something else instead of the fry (we were considering 3 clowns)
but we will wait now until the water settles. This tank has a fluval 4 and
an external fluval 302. The internal has been up and running since September
last year and got moved from one of the 50galls to this tank a good few
months ago. A few more plants in both might also be a good move.

Fry production appears to have stopped with the Mollies so I'm guessing they
were all females already carrying. The Platys are a different matter - I now
leave them to it in my 50gall community - we usually have a survival rate of
one or two that grow at a very rapid rate.....the others become food I'm
afraid. The Mbuna tank population also appears to be increasing with at
least 3 new occupants that have survived for 2 weeks plus.

I treat the new water that I add with AquaPlus to remove chlorine and
chloramine but that is the limit of the adjustments I would make. My son's
two tanks have never been medicated or had anything added other than the
AquaPlus. In fact, until now, we have had no problems with them since they
were cycled. Possibly this has led to a bit of complacency on my part. That
being said the only fish we have lost in there are Mollies - one 6 months
ago and this one today so maybe they are just not as robust as the others.

Gill

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 May 2005 22:53:20 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of
the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and
found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had
risen
to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was
physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change
and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down
and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2
months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely
the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill



The rise in pH suggests the need for more frequent partial water
changes. However, Mollies are my most disease prone fish I have. I
wouldn't be too concerned other than the normal guilt trips, but I
sure would urge your son to do several partials a week. The pH should
be the same as your tap water if the changes are done often enough.

One advantage to small, frequent water changes, less need to worry
about chlorine. A small percentage change means the fresh water is
diluted more, thus less need to make any chemical additions. I have 5
tanks, largest 75 gallons, and would hate to go through the water
adjustment procedures. When I got my first tank, the 75 gallon, I was
trying to adjust ph, my tap water is 7.8, and accidentally made the
water acid. I lost several fish within minutes.

As great as it is to have live bearers, they are colorful and always
the chance to have young ones, in my experience, they are the most
likely to have problems. (Now, I consider those fry part of the
problem, so the boys and girls are now in separate tanks)

dick

Tested the water this morning and everything is back to normal -
phew.....we
tested his other tank (30gall) and found a trace of ammonia in that one as
well (0.6) the pH was it's usual tap water 8 - starting to doubt last
nights
reading. Must be down to the water changes - I need to supervise more and
keep to the same regime as I do with my 4 tanks.

The 30gall is rather over populated at the moment as it has been used to
grow out some Mollie and Platy fry - these will be off to the shop either
today or tomorrow although we will probably try and keep some of the
Mollies
if possible (there are 8 of them). The "normal" inhabitants would be 5
Harlequins, 2 Glowlight Tetras, 2 Pearl Gouramis and a Plec....the plan
had
been to add something else instead of the fry (we were considering 3
clowns)
but we will wait now until the water settles. This tank has a fluval 4 and
an external fluval 302. The internal has been up and running since
September
last year and got moved from one of the 50galls to this tank a good few
months ago. A few more plants in both might also be a good move.

Fry production appears to have stopped with the Mollies so I'm guessing
they
were all females already carrying. The Platys are a different matter - I
now
leave them to it in my 50gall community - we usually have a survival rate
of
one or two that grow at a very rapid rate.....the others become food I'm
afraid. The Mbuna tank population also appears to be increasing with at
least 3 new occupants that have survived for 2 weeks plus.

I treat the new water that I add with AquaPlus to remove chlorine and
chloramine but that is the limit of the adjustments I would make. My son's
two tanks have never been medicated or had anything added other than the
AquaPlus. In fact, until now, we have had no problems with them since they
were cycled. Possibly this has led to a bit of complacency on my part.
That
being said the only fish we have lost in there are Mollies - one 6 months
ago and this one today so maybe they are just not as robust as the others.

Gill


False alarm - checked the colour of the water before adding the reagent and
it has a yellowish tinge from the bogwood. Ammonia 0 in the 30gall - :-)

Gill Passman wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...

Gill Passman wrote:

Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of

the

mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and

found

her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had

risen to

8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was

physically

sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change

and

put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down

and

the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely

the

water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill



Did you add an ammonia detoxifier like AmQuel or Ammo Lock? As you know
0.1 ppm free ammonia is quite toxic at pH 8.5. Water changes and cycled
filter medium sound quite sensible. I'd also add 1 tsp/5 gal salt in
case you get a bit of nitrite as well. The mollies will appreciate some
salt anyway.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Too late - she's gone :-(

Unfortunately I didn't have any ammonia detoxifier.

Sorry to hear that.

I started wondering whether your water has cloramine. AquaPlus does not
neutralize/detoxify the ammonia that forms when it breaks down
chloramine. You might want to check with your water board or LFS about
whether your water has chloramine.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

"Elaine T" wrote in message
. com...
Gill Passman wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...

Gill Passman wrote:

Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of

the

mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and

found

her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had

risen to

8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was

physically

sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change

and

put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down

and

the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2
months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely

the

water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill



Did you add an ammonia detoxifier like AmQuel or Ammo Lock? As you know
0.1 ppm free ammonia is quite toxic at pH 8.5. Water changes and cycled
filter medium sound quite sensible. I'd also add 1 tsp/5 gal salt in
case you get a bit of nitrite as well. The mollies will appreciate some
salt anyway.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Too late - she's gone :-(

Unfortunately I didn't have any ammonia detoxifier.

Sorry to hear that.

I started wondering whether your water has cloramine. AquaPlus does not
neutralize/detoxify the ammonia that forms when it breaks down
chloramine. You might want to check with your water board or LFS about
whether your water has chloramine.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

AquaPlus advertises itself as breaking down chloramine.....We've never had
any problems in the past with this and I add it on every change on all of
the tanks. The only fish we ever lost in that tank were Mollies - one in
Sept/Oct and this one....

One of the main reasons I don't keep an ammonia detoxifier is that we have
never had this before....small readings on cycling tanks but nothing much
more...and these have been dealt with by adding substrate or filter medium.

Everything is back to normal today after last nights big change....keeping a
close monitor....

Gill

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
Did the normal tank check including my son's tanks and noticed one of the
mollies was not swimming around as normal....Son checked in depth and
found
her at the bottom of the tank curved round herself.

We did a quick water check - ammonia was 0.1, nitrites 0 and pH had risen
to
8.5 - normal is 7.5

I caught her and bagged her while deciding what to do....she was
physically
sick....

At the moment, with little other option, I have done a 30% water change
and
put her into a breeder trap...

I will do another large water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down and
the pH starting up to normal levels. I'm also going to add another
pump/filter with mature filter medium.

The other fish all seem to be very happy. No new fish added for 2 months
plus. 15gall tank with 3 Mollies and 4 Rosy Barbs.

Has anyone got further suggestions (other than monitoring more closely the
water changes done by my son - who is very remourseful)

Gill


Another one gone this morning - same thing :-(

The water tested out fine for ammonia, nitrite and the pH was back to it's
normal 8. The only thing I didn't test for was nitrate but will do that
later.

This is puzzling me. Nothing has been added to the tank for months so we
can't have introduced any infections. And the only change was the magnetic
algae scraper last week and that had been thoroughly washed before use. It
looks like they have some sort of swim bladder problem - they curl in on
themselves.

Gill

Gill Passman wrote:

AquaPlus advertises itself as breaking down chloramine.....We've never had
any problems in the past with this and I add it on every change on all of
the tanks. The only fish we ever lost in that tank were Mollies - one in
Sept/Oct and this one....

One of the main reasons I don't keep an ammonia detoxifier is that we have
never had this before....small readings on cycling tanks but nothing much
more...and these have been dealt with by adding substrate or filter medium.

Everything is back to normal today after last nights big change....keeping a
close monitor....

Gill


There are two things that a chloramine water treatment must do.

1 - Break the bond between chlorine and ammonia and reduce the chlorine
to a nontoxic form. Even sodium thiosulfate does this.

2 - Detoxify the ammonia released from the chloramine. Municipal
chloramine concentrations are typically 3-6 ppm, and 1-2 ppm ammonia is
released when the chloramine is neutralized. Do a 25% water change with
water that contains chloramines and has been treated with thiosulfate,
and you have 0.25 ppm to 0.5 ppm ammonia in your tank! It is broken
down by the biofilter, but still...

See why I'm wondering about chloramine?

More info for newbies because I always type too much...

A lot of water conditioners including all of those containing pure
sodium thiosulfate, Stress Coat, and AquaPlus (according to Hagen's
website) only do step 1. I think the claim AquaPlus makes that it
"neutralizes chloramines" is rather misleading.

AmQuel, AmQuel+, Prime, Ammo Lock, Ammo Lock 2, and AquaSafe are some
products that both break the chloramine chemical bond and neutralize the
ammonia. They are safe to use with both chlorine and chloramines under
all water conditions and for large water changes.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com