quarantine after ich?
 

this is a query in the aftermath of a sad story - a month or so ago I
bought five baby (very baby) botia striatas and two female dwarf
gouramis. They'd come from a shop with a common filter system (and I
only have one spare tank) so I kept all seven fish in the same tank to
quarantine them, and treated with protozin at half strength as a
prophylactic. a week later, two striatas were dead. I kind of assumed
(after discussion with some loachy people) that they were very small and
undernourished from transport and that it had all been too stressful for
them. Next day, the other striatas were spotty. Sigh. To cut a long
story short, on Monday morning I found the last striata dead (I have a
feeling it was the protozin that killed him in the end, not the ich
which had I think just about cleared up).

My query is, how long should I wait before adding the gouramis to the
main tank, which contains a male dwarf gourami some rasboras and some
(slightly random) kuhlis? One gourami had two spots a couple of weeks
ago and has shown no signs since, the other has been consistently clear.
I'm extremely reluctant to add them at the moment, as this is the first
time I've had a disease in a tank and I would hate to infect the kuhlis,
not least because one is rare in the hobby (I haven't even managed to
find a photo of another one on the net).

any advice will be very gratefully received.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

"sophiefishstuff" wrote in
message ...
this is a query in the aftermath of a sad story - a month or so ago I
bought five baby (very baby) botia striatas and two female dwarf
gouramis. They'd come from a shop with a common filter system (and I
only have one spare tank) so I kept all seven fish in the same tank to
quarantine them, and treated with protozin at half strength as a
prophylactic. a week later, two striatas were dead. I kind of assumed
(after discussion with some loachy people) that they were very small and
undernourished from transport and that it had all been too stressful for
them. Next day, the other striatas were spotty. Sigh. To cut a long
story short, on Monday morning I found the last striata dead (I have a
feeling it was the protozin that killed him in the end, not the ich
which had I think just about cleared up).

My query is, how long should I wait before adding the gouramis to the
main tank, which contains a male dwarf gourami some rasboras and some
(slightly random) kuhlis? One gourami had two spots a couple of weeks
ago and has shown no signs since, the other has been consistently clear.
I'm extremely reluctant to add them at the moment, as this is the first
time I've had a disease in a tank and I would hate to infect the kuhlis,
not least because one is rare in the hobby (I haven't even managed to
find a photo of another one on the net).

any advice will be very gratefully received.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

If the Gourami are clear and you treated my guess is that they are over it -
if you want to be sure leave it a few more weeks whatever you are
comfortable with - keep up with gravel vacs and water changes to make sure
that you get any residual spores - a little salt and higher temps might also
help. IME some fish gain a resistance to Ich but it depends on whether your
existing tank fish have this resistance - problem is you won't know unless
you try (not a good idea). But one thing to bear in mind is that Ich is a
water borne infestation. So if you move the fish don't add any of the tank
water to your main tank....some people empty into a bucket and net them, I
net them out of the bag because I only have small volumes.....I learnt from
bitter experience never to mix store/infected water with mine (fortunately
only in terms of hard work clearing the tank of Ich introduced via their
water)

The first analysis of stress or other infection might be true on the other
fish....but it has been noted that stress is a major cause of fish becoming
susceptible to Ich....shipping or other movement of fish is most certainly
stressful. The symptoms can be hidden as the Ich can just exist in the gills
rather than you seeing the more typical signs. If your LFS already had Ich
spores in the water (which is very likely IME) - it was introduced with the
water....

Wishing you all the best
Gill

In message , Gill Passman
writes

"sophiefishstuff" wrote in
message ...
this is a query in the aftermath of a sad story - a month or so ago I
bought five baby (very baby) botia striatas and two female dwarf
gouramis. They'd come from a shop with a common filter system (and I
only have one spare tank) so I kept all seven fish in the same tank to
quarantine them, and treated with protozin at half strength as a
prophylactic. a week later, two striatas were dead. I kind of assumed
(after discussion with some loachy people) that they were very small and
undernourished from transport and that it had all been too stressful for
them. Next day, the other striatas were spotty. Sigh. To cut a long
story short, on Monday morning I found the last striata dead (I have a
feeling it was the protozin that killed him in the end, not the ich
which had I think just about cleared up).

My query is, how long should I wait before adding the gouramis to the
main tank, which contains a male dwarf gourami some rasboras and some
(slightly random) kuhlis? One gourami had two spots a couple of weeks
ago and has shown no signs since, the other has been consistently clear.
I'm extremely reluctant to add them at the moment, as this is the first
time I've had a disease in a tank and I would hate to infect the kuhlis,
not least because one is rare in the hobby (I haven't even managed to
find a photo of another one on the net).

any advice will be very gratefully received.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

If the Gourami are clear and you treated my guess is that they are over it -
if you want to be sure leave it a few more weeks whatever you are
comfortable with - keep up with gravel vacs and water changes to make sure
that you get any residual spores - a little salt and higher temps might also
help. IME some fish gain a resistance to Ich but it depends on whether your
existing tank fish have this resistance - problem is you won't know unless
you try (not a good idea). But one thing to bear in mind is that Ich is a
water borne infestation. So if you move the fish don't add any of the tank
water to your main tank....some people empty into a bucket and net them, I
net them out of the bag because I only have small volumes.....I learnt from
bitter experience never to mix store/infected water with mine (fortunately
only in terms of hard work clearing the tank of Ich introduced via their
water)

The first analysis of stress or other infection might be true on the other
fish....but it has been noted that stress is a major cause of fish becoming
susceptible to Ich....shipping or other movement of fish is most certainly
stressful. The symptoms can be hidden as the Ich can just exist in the gills
rather than you seeing the more typical signs. If your LFS already had Ich
spores in the water (which is very likely IME) - it was introduced with the
water....

thanks Gill,

I was careful not to put any shop water into the tank; I suspect that
the fish must already have been infected themselves as the tank (and
filter) that they were quarantined in was established and clean. If I
had another spare tank I'd be willing to try changing them between tanks
every evening and sterilising the tank (and contents) that they'd come
from, I'm really wary that the gouramis may well be unphased by a few
parasites but the kuhlis would drop like flies.
gah.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

Hi there
Go here to learn more about Ich and its incubation periods:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
Kim

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:38:50 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"sophiefishstuff" wrote in
message ...
this is a query in the aftermath of a sad story - a month or so ago I
bought five baby (very baby) botia striatas and two female dwarf
gouramis. They'd come from a shop with a common filter system (and I
only have one spare tank) so I kept all seven fish in the same tank to
quarantine them, and treated with protozin at half strength as a
prophylactic. a week later, two striatas were dead. I kind of assumed
(after discussion with some loachy people) that they were very small and
undernourished from transport and that it had all been too stressful for
them. Next day, the other striatas were spotty. Sigh. To cut a long
story short, on Monday morning I found the last striata dead (I have a
feeling it was the protozin that killed him in the end, not the ich
which had I think just about cleared up).

My query is, how long should I wait before adding the gouramis to the
main tank, which contains a male dwarf gourami some rasboras and some
(slightly random) kuhlis? One gourami had two spots a couple of weeks
ago and has shown no signs since, the other has been consistently clear.
I'm extremely reluctant to add them at the moment, as this is the first
time I've had a disease in a tank and I would hate to infect the kuhlis,
not least because one is rare in the hobby (I haven't even managed to
find a photo of another one on the net).

any advice will be very gratefully received.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

If the Gourami are clear and you treated my guess is that they are over it -
if you want to be sure leave it a few more weeks whatever you are
comfortable with - keep up with gravel vacs and water changes to make sure
that you get any residual spores - a little salt and higher temps might also
help. IME some fish gain a resistance to Ich but it depends on whether your
existing tank fish have this resistance - problem is you won't know unless
you try (not a good idea). But one thing to bear in mind is that Ich is a
water borne infestation. So if you move the fish don't add any of the tank
water to your main tank....some people empty into a bucket and net them, I
net them out of the bag because I only have small volumes.....I learnt from
bitter experience never to mix store/infected water with mine (fortunately
only in terms of hard work clearing the tank of Ich introduced via their
water)

The first analysis of stress or other infection might be true on the other
fish....but it has been noted that stress is a major cause of fish becoming
susceptible to Ich....shipping or other movement of fish is most certainly
stressful. The symptoms can be hidden as the Ich can just exist in the gills
rather than you seeing the more typical signs. If your LFS already had Ich
spores in the water (which is very likely IME) - it was introduced with the
water....

Wishing you all the best
Gill


Hi Gill and Sophie,

I have had only one experience with Ich. I get all my fish delivered
by overnight mail. I received an order of 6 Clown Loaches. At the
time I only had a 75 gallon tank. The instructions said to float the
bags in the tank with the lights off, so when I first saw the fish,
they had been in the tank for a couple of hours. They were all
covered with Ich. I had no medication and had to order over the
internet, so it was well over a week before I could start medication.

This long story is a build up to the formation of my Ich opinion.
During this time I had about 50 fish of various species exposed to the
Ich and the Ich had time to cycle thus infesting the tank. Not one
healthy fish got Ich from these infected Clowns, thus I have the
opinion that healthy tanks with healthy fish are not going to get Ich.

dick

In message .com, Scat
writes
Hi there
Go here to learn more about Ich and its incubation periods:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
Kim

thanks Kim;

I understand about the incubation periods of ich and I'd be happy to get
rid of it in a tank with no fish in it; however it's being sure that the
gouramis are genuinely clear (rather than visibly clear) that worries
me...


--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

Gill and Dick are correct in that a healthy fish seems to resist Ich. But the stress of moving fish may weaken its immunity!
I once purchased half a dozen Cardinal tetras from a local store. The next day they all had Ich two days after I had lost them all, None of the other fish were affected then or since. I did return to the store for a refund the same week and noticed the tank that held several hundred Cardinals only days before, was empty. I don't buy from there anymore.
I also now use a UV clarifier on my main tank and quarantine new fish.
Steve

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:05:18 +0100, papalulu
wrote:


Dick Wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:38:50 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:
-

"sophiefishstuff" wrote
in
message ...-
this is a query in the aftermath of a sad story - a month or so ago I
bought five baby (very baby) botia striatas and two female dwarf
gouramis. They'd come from a shop with a common filter system (and I
only have one spare tank) so I kept all seven fish in the same tank
to
quarantine them, and treated with protozin at half strength as a
prophylactic. a week later, two striatas were dead. I kind of assumed
(after discussion with some loachy people) that they were very small
and
undernourished from transport and that it had all been too stressful
for
them. Next day, the other striatas were spotty. Sigh. To cut a long
story short, on Monday morning I found the last striata dead (I have
a
feeling it was the protozin that killed him in the end, not the ich
which had I think just about cleared up).

My query is, how long should I wait before adding the gouramis to the
main tank, which contains a male dwarf gourami some rasboras and some
(slightly random) kuhlis? One gourami had two spots a couple of weeks
ago and has shown no signs since, the other has been consistently
clear.
I'm extremely reluctant to add them at the moment, as this is the
first
time I've had a disease in a tank and I would hate to infect the
kuhlis,
not least because one is rare in the hobby (I haven't even managed to
find a photo of another one on the net).

any advice will be very gratefully received.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)-

If the Gourami are clear and you treated my guess is that they are over
it -
if you want to be sure leave it a few more weeks whatever you are
comfortable with - keep up with gravel vacs and water changes to make
sure
that you get any residual spores - a little salt and higher temps might
also
help. IME some fish gain a resistance to Ich but it depends on whether
your
existing tank fish have this resistance - problem is you won't know
unless
you try (not a good idea). But one thing to bear in mind is that Ich is
a
water borne infestation. So if you move the fish don't add any of the
tank
water to your main tank....some people empty into a bucket and net
them, I
net them out of the bag because I only have small volumes.....I learnt
from
bitter experience never to mix store/infected water with mine
(fortunately
only in terms of hard work clearing the tank of Ich introduced via
their
water)

The first analysis of stress or other infection might be true on the
other
fish....but it has been noted that stress is a major cause of fish
becoming
susceptible to Ich....shipping or other movement of fish is most
certainly
stressful. The symptoms can be hidden as the Ich can just exist in the
gills
rather than you seeing the more typical signs. If your LFS already had
Ich
spores in the water (which is very likely IME) - it was introduced with
the
water....

Wishing you all the best
Gill
-

Hi Gill and Sophie,

I have had only one experience with Ich. I get all my fish delivered
by overnight mail. I received an order of 6 Clown Loaches. At the
time I only had a 75 gallon tank. The instructions said to float the
bags in the tank with the lights off, so when I first saw the fish,
they had been in the tank for a couple of hours. They were all
covered with Ich. I had no medication and had to order over the
internet, so it was well over a week before I could start medication.

This long story is a build up to the formation of my Ich opinion.
During this time I had about 50 fish of various species exposed to the
Ich and the Ich had time to cycle thus infesting the tank. Not one
healthy fish got Ich from these infected Clowns, thus I have the
opinion that healthy tanks with healthy fish are not going to get Ich.

dick
Gill and Dick are correct in that a healthy fish seems to resist Ich.
But the stress of moving fish may weaken its immunity!
I once purchased half a dozen Cardinal tetras from a local store. The
next day they all had Ich two days after I had lost them all, None of
the other fish were affected then or since. I did return to the store
for a refund the same week and noticed the tank that held several
hundred Cardinals only days before, was empty. I don't buy from there
anymore.
I also now use a UV clarifier on my main tank and quarantine new fish.

Steve

If I read what you say correctly, Gill, you and I are in total
agreement. The Cardinals were probably sick when you bought them. I
received a shipment of 6 Clowns that were sick on arrival. Checking
with the vendor he confirmed that the fish had come from a tank of
infected Clowns and were shipped by mistake. The tank had been
marked, but one employee was careless.

What we call "stress" has its own symptoms such as hiding out and loss
of color. I am torn between calling it an illness or a condition that
robs the system of energy normally available to fight illness. I have
received close to 100 fish via overnight shipments. Other than the 6
Clowns which were known to be sick, all the rest have been healthy. I
think we all would expect those fish felt stressed.

As humans, we are constantly warned that "stress kills," but we jog
and run for health all the while stressing our motor system. What is
more stressful than having a "Royal Flush" and everyone is bidding the
pot higher! I have lived a very stressful life including surviving
the stress of owning a fast food store in a minority neighborhood
during the "Watts" riots. I spent a week sleeping on a freezer top
with a shot gun at my side while local people mounted patrols to keep
the riots from spreading to their community. Lots of stress, but I
didn't get sick.

I have had doctors recommend treatments which I ignored as I disagreed
with their assessments and was glad I did. I have seen individual fish
get sick and die while their companions have no problem in the same
tank. I just don't think we yet know enough about "illness" to do
much more than try various approaches and hope/pray we or our fish,
get well. I will claim some expertise at survival although I am only
70. My dad died of a blood clot at the age of 51 during a very good
part (happy) of his life.

dick

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:59:04 +0100, sophiefishstuff
wrote:

In message .com, Scat
writes
Hi there
Go here to learn more about Ich and its incubation periods:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
Kim

thanks Kim;

I understand about the incubation periods of ich and I'd be happy to get
rid of it in a tank with no fish in it; however it's being sure that the
gouramis are genuinely clear (rather than visibly clear) that worries
me...


Time will tell. Ich does not kill, so I understand. Weak fish get
sick including Ich. If I were you I would focus on keeping your tank
healthy. I have 3 Gouramis that are in the tank in which I had 7 ich
sick Clown Loaches. That was over 2 years ago. I killed 5 of the 7
Clowns as they were very weak. The other 2 Clowns are still in the
with the Gouramis and a variety of other fish. Never had Ich return.

Worry is a terrible price to pay for the pleasure of having fish. I
contribute to the worry fund also, so I know the desire of wanting
assurance. I have never found a way to beat worry/fear. I tell
myself all the factual things I can, I remind myself that I have
solved many other problems successfully, but the worry remains until I
gets distracted to something else. Mowing the lawn does wonders for
me.

dick

sophiefishstuff wrote:
In message .com, Scat
writes

Hi there
Go here to learn more about Ich and its incubation periods:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
Kim


thanks Kim;

I understand about the incubation periods of ich and I'd be happy to get
rid of it in a tank with no fish in it; however it's being sure that the
gouramis are genuinely clear (rather than visibly clear) that worries me...

Ich can hang out silently in the gills. The only sign is that if there
are a lot of parasites, the fish will gill harder than usual. I had an
infected SAE bring ich into a new tank this way - I saw the hard gilling
and couldn't figure out why. Next thing I knew, the cardinals I bought
at the same time had ich.

A week ich-free is usually considered safe. However if I had your rare
loaches, I'd wait for two weeks, watching to be sure the gouramis are
gilling normally the whole time. If you have no snails or inverts in
your main tank, you could add one dose of Aquarisol when you introduce
the gouramis. Aquarisol is a very mild copper treatment and is great
for preventing ich without being toxic or stressing fish.

Good luck!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com