How long can I expect the bacteria to survive in my filter without power?
 

Came home this evening to find the temp in my main community tank a little
bit on the high side - this was the one that was the coolest in the last
blast of heat that we had.

Did a water change and then noticed that the outlet of my filter (Fluval 304
ext) was not throwing any water back in. We checked the inlet valve and it
was reasonably clear however unless we manually pumped no water was being
drawn out or put back in. We think that it might be the impeller as the
motor is working fine - no blockages coz we can pump manually. Anyway it is
turned off so that the motor doesn't burn out.

To protect the fish I have put in a Fluval 4 internal (fully cycled - it has
been hanging around in another tank for months after being this one
originally - so in action for at least 10 months).

We can't do anything about the external until some time tomorrow. So my
question is will any of the bacteria survive? or will I have to start it
from scratch again? It is still full of tank water.

Thanks
Gill

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
Came home this evening to find the temp in my main community tank a little
bit on the high side - this was the one that was the coolest in the last
blast of heat that we had.

Did a water change and then noticed that the outlet of my filter (Fluval
304
ext) was not throwing any water back in. We checked the inlet valve and it
was reasonably clear however unless we manually pumped no water was being
drawn out or put back in. We think that it might be the impeller as the
motor is working fine - no blockages coz we can pump manually. Anyway it
is
turned off so that the motor doesn't burn out.

To protect the fish I have put in a Fluval 4 internal (fully cycled - it
has
been hanging around in another tank for months after being this one
originally - so in action for at least 10 months).

We can't do anything about the external until some time tomorrow. So my
question is will any of the bacteria survive? or will I have to start it
from scratch again? It is still full of tank water.


Can you take the top off the Fluval and put an airstone inside or just take
the trays out of the filter and sit them in the tank? The Oxygen in the tank
s/b enough to keep your bacteria going.

I lost power for about four hours a week ago, so I unplugged my 304s before
the power retuned. I cleaned them in tank water after the power returned and
there was definitely a noticeable odour. But they were also full of eggs,
likely from a recent plant purchase. I've since purchased a couple of UPSs
to save me the trouble in future.

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
Came home this evening to find the temp in my main community tank a
little
bit on the high side - this was the one that was the coolest in the
last
blast of heat that we had.

Did a water change and then noticed that the outlet of my filter
(Fluval 304
ext) was not throwing any water back in. We checked the inlet valve and
it
was reasonably clear however unless we manually pumped no water was
being
drawn out or put back in. We think that it might be the impeller as the
motor is working fine - no blockages coz we can pump manually. Anyway
it is
turned off so that the motor doesn't burn out.

To protect the fish I have put in a Fluval 4 internal (fully cycled -
it has
been hanging around in another tank for months after being this one
originally - so in action for at least 10 months).

We can't do anything about the external until some time tomorrow. So my
question is will any of the bacteria survive? or will I have to start
it
from scratch again? It is still full of tank water.

Thanks
Gill


I don't think it will survive. Perhaps remove the media, rinse the dead
bacteria & detritus out and float the media in the tank (if you need the
biological capacity). You should be able to see the impeller turning
with the filter opened up though.
--
www.NetMax.tk

It's probably not a matter of the bacteria all dying at once, it's more
productive to think in terms of a decimal reduction and the amount of
time it would take to get to that point. That said, I'd be very
surprised if a couple of hours didn't make a lick of difference- my
guess for nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, and related bacteria is that they'd
probably undergo decimal reduction once every day at human habital
temperatures, and have nearly no reduction for a half day. A day or two
would probably take an equal amount of time for population proprotions
to re-establish themselves.

As an aside, many of the consortia (bacteria living in groups of
cooperating species that let them bend the rules of thermodynamics a
little)in your filter, like the Nitrogen cyclers, are happy to use
Nitrates as an alternative to Oxygen as a terminal electron acceptor.
(Biophysics jargon for why animals 'breathe' oxygen.) Nitrate winds up
being converted (backwards from what an aquarists' point of view would
be) into Nitrite by a huge variety of bacteria.

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
Came home this evening to find the temp in my main community tank a
little
bit on the high side - this was the one that was the coolest in the
last
blast of heat that we had.

Did a water change and then noticed that the outlet of my filter
(Fluval 304
ext) was not throwing any water back in. We checked the inlet valve and
it
was reasonably clear however unless we manually pumped no water was
being
drawn out or put back in. We think that it might be the impeller as the
motor is working fine - no blockages coz we can pump manually. Anyway
it is
turned off so that the motor doesn't burn out.

To protect the fish I have put in a Fluval 4 internal (fully cycled -
it has
been hanging around in another tank for months after being this one
originally - so in action for at least 10 months).

We can't do anything about the external until some time tomorrow. So my
question is will any of the bacteria survive? or will I have to start
it
from scratch again? It is still full of tank water.

Thanks
Gill


I don't think it will survive. Perhaps remove the media, rinse the dead
bacteria & detritus out and float the media in the tank (if you need the
biological capacity). You should be able to see the impeller turning
with the filter opened up though.
--
www.NetMax.tk


Well I suppose that at least by having the Fluval 4 int hanging about it
isn't a total disaster (fingers and everything else crossed). I won't be
happy leaving that as the only filtration/pump for more than a day or
two....plus the load it has had before (shared with a Fluval 302) is nothing
compared with what there is in this tank....but I guess I have the bacteria
that is in the tank anyway....few more frequent water changes until all is
sorted....

I didn't really want to set up a new filter system two weeks before we go
away but I guess with my MTS at least I can use some medium out of the other
tanks to kick start (not the one I just took the internal from though)....

What is it about this hobby that you go through a couple of days of thinking
everything is sorted and happy and then something else jumps up and bites
you?????

Gill

"John Thomas" wrote in message
...
It's probably not a matter of the bacteria all dying at once, it's more
productive to think in terms of a decimal reduction and the amount of
time it would take to get to that point. That said, I'd be very
surprised if a couple of hours didn't make a lick of difference- my
guess for nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, and related bacteria is that they'd
probably undergo decimal reduction once every day at human habital
temperatures, and have nearly no reduction for a half day. A day or two
would probably take an equal amount of time for population proprotions
to re-establish themselves.

As an aside, many of the consortia (bacteria living in groups of
cooperating species that let them bend the rules of thermodynamics a
little)in your filter, like the Nitrogen cyclers, are happy to use
Nitrates as an alternative to Oxygen as a terminal electron acceptor.
(Biophysics jargon for why animals 'breathe' oxygen.) Nitrate winds up
being converted (backwards from what an aquarists' point of view would
be) into Nitrite by a huge variety of bacteria.

We are probably talking anything up to 24 hours as I do not know when the
pump stopped working....it was fine at lights on but we have been out all
day and evening - so potentially that is 12 hours....then overnight and the
length of time it will take us to get it fixed so add another 12 to 18
hours....

It has been off for 16 hours in the past with no ill-effect - because
afterall it isn't just the filter bacteria that work on the waste but
bacteria within the tank - but it has to be said I am nervous. Hopefully,
the internal Fluval 4 will bear the load til we get the other one fixed...

We have been talking about this tonight and actually bearing in mind the
number of tanks that we have we are coming to the conclusion that as well as
keeping the fluval 4 up and running it would be worth keeping a spare
external 304....afterall that would be far cheaper than replacing the
fish....

The plan is to test if it truly is the impeller by taking the impeller from
the 304 in the Malawi tank and just running a test tomorrow morning - that
way we know what we are spending in the morning....

Gill

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
snip

What is it about this hobby that you go through a couple of days of
thinking
everything is sorted and happy and then something else jumps up and
bites
you?????

Gill

LOL, in my experience the interval between crisis's increases with
practice and experience. Everything can be running great for many years,
and then perhaps from a combination of complacency luck and wear & tear,
it goes to hell in a hand basket. I get bit every few years. The front
of my 120g opened dropping 50g before the silicone pulled it back in.
That was fun *not*. I guess if it was too easy, it wouldn't be as much
fun? ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

Gill Passman wrote:

"John Thomas" wrote in message
...

It's probably not a matter of the bacteria all dying at once, it's more
productive to think in terms of a decimal reduction and the amount of
time it would take to get to that point. That said, I'd be very
surprised if a couple of hours didn't make a lick of difference- my
guess for nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, and related bacteria is that they'd
probably undergo decimal reduction once every day at human habital
temperatures, and have nearly no reduction for a half day. A day or two
would probably take an equal amount of time for population proprotions
to re-establish themselves.

As an aside, many of the consortia (bacteria living in groups of
cooperating species that let them bend the rules of thermodynamics a
little)in your filter, like the Nitrogen cyclers, are happy to use
Nitrates as an alternative to Oxygen as a terminal electron acceptor.
(Biophysics jargon for why animals 'breathe' oxygen.) Nitrate winds up
being converted (backwards from what an aquarists' point of view would
be) into Nitrite by a huge variety of bacteria.


We are probably talking anything up to 24 hours as I do not know when the
pump stopped working....it was fine at lights on but we have been out all
day and evening - so potentially that is 12 hours....then overnight and the
length of time it will take us to get it fixed so add another 12 to 18
hours....

It has been off for 16 hours in the past with no ill-effect - because
afterall it isn't just the filter bacteria that work on the waste but
bacteria within the tank - but it has to be said I am nervous. Hopefully,
the internal Fluval 4 will bear the load til we get the other one fixed...

We have been talking about this tonight and actually bearing in mind the
number of tanks that we have we are coming to the conclusion that as well as
keeping the fluval 4 up and running it would be worth keeping a spare
external 304....afterall that would be far cheaper than replacing the
fish....

The plan is to test if it truly is the impeller by taking the impeller from
the 304 in the Malawi tank and just running a test tomorrow morning - that
way we know what we are spending in the morning....

It should look obvious that something has become deformed or broken.
These things are simply a magnet with a shaft. I used a Fluval once. The
power went off for 10 seconds and came back on. Only hours later did I
realise that the pump was not circulating water. The pump was very warm
and when I opened it the impeller shaft had melted. So what happened was
that when the mains went off and then came back on the shaft got jammed
and as the water was not circulating to keep the pump cool everything
overheated. That was my last Fluval. I moved over to Interpet after that
incident.

You could plumb the dead filter inline with another working one to keep
the flow going, even if it is on a different tank. Or you could jam a
powerhead at the outlet to pull through the water.

Nikki

NetMax wrote:

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
k...

snip

What is it about this hobby that you go through a couple of days of
thinking
everything is sorted and happy and then something else jumps up and
bites
you?????

Gill


LOL, in my experience the interval between crisis's increases with
practice and experience. Everything can be running great for many years,
and then perhaps from a combination of complacency luck and wear & tear,
it goes to hell in a hand basket. I get bit every few years. The front
of my 120g opened dropping 50g before the silicone pulled it back in.
That was fun *not*. I guess if it was too easy, it wouldn't be as much
fun? ;~)

Very true. We would move on to something else more challenging in a
flash. Sometimes we like to push things to the very edge, even over, and
then pull just slightly back and admire our achievements. They wouldn't
be achievements if there were not risks attached.

Nikki

"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...
Gill Passman wrote:

"John Thomas" wrote in message
...

It's probably not a matter of the bacteria all dying at once, it's more
productive to think in terms of a decimal reduction and the amount of
time it would take to get to that point. That said, I'd be very
surprised if a couple of hours didn't make a lick of difference- my
guess for nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, and related bacteria is that they'd
probably undergo decimal reduction once every day at human habital
temperatures, and have nearly no reduction for a half day. A day or two
would probably take an equal amount of time for population proprotions
to re-establish themselves.

As an aside, many of the consortia (bacteria living in groups of
cooperating species that let them bend the rules of thermodynamics a
little)in your filter, like the Nitrogen cyclers, are happy to use
Nitrates as an alternative to Oxygen as a terminal electron acceptor.
(Biophysics jargon for why animals 'breathe' oxygen.) Nitrate winds up
being converted (backwards from what an aquarists' point of view would
be) into Nitrite by a huge variety of bacteria.


We are probably talking anything up to 24 hours as I do not know when
the
pump stopped working....it was fine at lights on but we have been out
all
day and evening - so potentially that is 12 hours....then overnight and
the
length of time it will take us to get it fixed so add another 12 to 18
hours....

It has been off for 16 hours in the past with no ill-effect - because
afterall it isn't just the filter bacteria that work on the waste but
bacteria within the tank - but it has to be said I am nervous.
Hopefully,
the internal Fluval 4 will bear the load til we get the other one
fixed...

We have been talking about this tonight and actually bearing in mind the
number of tanks that we have we are coming to the conclusion that as
well as
keeping the fluval 4 up and running it would be worth keeping a spare
external 304....afterall that would be far cheaper than replacing the
fish....

The plan is to test if it truly is the impeller by taking the impeller
from
the 304 in the Malawi tank and just running a test tomorrow morning -
that
way we know what we are spending in the morning....

It should look obvious that something has become deformed or broken.
These things are simply a magnet with a shaft. I used a Fluval once. The
power went off for 10 seconds and came back on. Only hours later did I
realise that the pump was not circulating water. The pump was very warm
and when I opened it the impeller shaft had melted. So what happened was
that when the mains went off and then came back on the shaft got jammed
and as the water was not circulating to keep the pump cool everything
overheated. That was my last Fluval. I moved over to Interpet after that
incident.

You could plumb the dead filter inline with another working one to keep
the flow going, even if it is on a different tank. Or you could jam a
powerhead at the outlet to pull through the water.

Nikki


We discovered that both of the Fluval 304 externals were in fact blocked
although some water would come through if we pumped it manually. 5 mins of
hard manual labour and they are both working again efficiently.

I can only think that they got blocked because of the algae dying off during
the "lights off" periods when it gets hot....

Thanks everyone for your posts
Gill