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-   -   Pearl Gourami--scales flaking off? (http://www.fishkeepingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=26356)

[email protected] December 4th 05 09:45 PM

Pearl Gourami--scales flaking off?
 
Hi,

It's been a while posting... and as usual, I'm posting when I'm in
trouble...

I have a Pearl Gourami (T. Leeri), that is a little over 1yr old male.
I also have 3 other female gouramis. (i've had 2 of the female for
about 4 years now, and the male/female pair was added about a year
ago.. since I was *supposed* to have a M/F pair, but after a year, it
was obvious that I didn't!)

Anyway, for the past few months (I think. it's been going on for a
while now), the male gourami has been developing what looked like a
white patch under his scale, sort of on this forehead/nose bridge
line... sort of like someone injected milky white fluid under his
scales. the scale looked intact, no puffiness, just that the
coloration under the scale looked pearl-white. the white patch started
small, and then it slowly grew, but the size sort of stabilized for a
while. He's otherwise not acting ill, and I thought may be it's just a
pigmentation thing, so I've been keeping an eye on it, but haven't done
much. He's pretty active during the day, but in the evenings, he
starts hiding out near the bottom of the tank under the plants (I have
a very bushy tank), but he's always been that way, so.... He's also
been collecting plants and gathering them in the corner of the tank, so
i guess he's feeling well enough to "nest".

two days ago, I noticed that the scales around this white patch started
to flake off. I checked the water quality, ammonia zero, nitrite zero,
nitrate between 5-10ppm. pH is kinda low, but that's due to my low
gH/kH (we have very soft water) and high plant density.

Anyway, since I didn' t know what else to do, I did a 50% water change
two days ago and a good gravel vac, and dumped some Spectrogram
antibiotics (wide-spectrum antibiotics) yesterday to prevent any
secondary infection complicating matters for now. I intend to go
through with the standard 3-day Spectrogram treatment unless there's
some contraindications.

looking at the gourami now after the scales started flaking off almost
looks like hole-in-the-head disease at its worst state, but it didn't
seem to start that way from looking at the info on the web. So I'm
trying to figure out what to do. Other fish looks relatively healthy,
although two of my female gourami seems to be developing a cloudy white
spot in the center of the pupil. Not sure if that is related, or not,
but I thought I'd mention it. I dont' know if this is contagious. I
guess I should set up a quarantine tank just in case? (or is it too
late since he's been in this condition for weeks.. well, without the
scales flaking off, of course).

all non-gourami species of the tank seem healthy (if not fat).

tank:
37G, UGF (2 x aquaclear 200 powerheads) + HOT magnum
97F
ammonia, nitrite = 0
nitrate 10ppm
very coarse gravel

other inhabitants:
4 Gouramis (t. leeri)
4 SAE
3-4 zebra loach (there's supposed to be 4, but I usually only see 3)
6-7 chain loach (b. sidthemunki) There's supposed to be 7, but I
usually only see 6
few otocinclus (there's supposed to be around 5, but I rarely see
them.. too much vegetation)
4 amazong sword (bushy, and taking over tank)
1 huge anubias
bunch of java fern colony that is also overtaking the tank...

linda


[email protected] December 5th 05 02:52 AM

Pearl Gourami--scales flaking off?
 

wrote:
Hi,

It's been a while posting... and as usual, I'm posting when I'm in
trouble...

I have a Pearl Gourami (T. Leeri), that is a little over 1yr old male.
I also have 3 other female gouramis. (i've had 2 of the female for
about 4 years now, and the male/female pair was added about a year
ago.. since I was *supposed* to have a M/F pair, but after a year, it
was obvious that I didn't!)

Anyway, for the past few months (I think. it's been going on for a
while now), the male gourami has been developing what looked like a
white patch under his scale, sort of on this forehead/nose bridge
line... sort of like someone injected milky white fluid under his
scales. the scale looked intact, no puffiness, just that the
coloration under the scale looked pearl-white. the white patch started
small, and then it slowly grew, but the size sort of stabilized for a
while. He's otherwise not acting ill, and I thought may be it's just a
pigmentation thing, so I've been keeping an eye on it, but haven't done
much. He's pretty active during the day, but in the evenings, he
starts hiding out near the bottom of the tank under the plants (I have
a very bushy tank), but he's always been that way, so.... He's also
been collecting plants and gathering them in the corner of the tank, so
i guess he's feeling well enough to "nest".

two days ago, I noticed that the scales around this white patch started
to flake off. I checked the water quality, ammonia zero, nitrite zero,
nitrate between 5-10ppm. pH is kinda low, but that's due to my low
gH/kH (we have very soft water) and high plant density.

Anyway, since I didn' t know what else to do, I did a 50% water change
two days ago and a good gravel vac, and dumped some Spectrogram
antibiotics (wide-spectrum antibiotics) yesterday to prevent any
secondary infection complicating matters for now. I intend to go
through with the standard 3-day Spectrogram treatment unless there's
some contraindications.

looking at the gourami now after the scales started flaking off almost
looks like hole-in-the-head disease at its worst state, but it didn't
seem to start that way from looking at the info on the web. So I'm
trying to figure out what to do. Other fish looks relatively healthy,
although two of my female gourami seems to be developing a cloudy white
spot in the center of the pupil. Not sure if that is related, or not,
but I thought I'd mention it. I dont' know if this is contagious. I
guess I should set up a quarantine tank just in case? (or is it too
late since he's been in this condition for weeks.. well, without the
scales flaking off, of course).

all non-gourami species of the tank seem healthy (if not fat).

tank:
37G, UGF (2 x aquaclear 200 powerheads) + HOT magnum
97F
ammonia, nitrite = 0
nitrate 10ppm
very coarse gravel

other inhabitants:
4 Gouramis (t. leeri)
4 SAE
3-4 zebra loach (there's supposed to be 4, but I usually only see 3)
6-7 chain loach (b. sidthemunki) There's supposed to be 7, but I
usually only see 6
few otocinclus (there's supposed to be around 5, but I rarely see
them.. too much vegetation)
4 amazong sword (bushy, and taking over tank)
1 huge anubias
bunch of java fern colony that is also overtaking the tank...

linda



I had a problem about 76 months ago that was almost exactly what you
describe. I was told by some friends that it was likely hole in the
head. I began more frequent ewater changes, to try and improve water
quality and hopefully kill whatever bacteria was in the tank, but in
was too late for my fish. Hopefully, you caught whatever it is soon
enough.

I say, try and keep up good water quality until you can definitivley
say what is going on.


LM December 6th 05 04:48 AM

Pearl Gourami--scales flaking off?
 
thanks for the info...

hmm.. bummer.

I'll keep water changes and keep my fingers crossed...

I'm also getting mixed info on whether hole-in-the-head disease is
contageous or not (some says yes, some says no, my two most favorite
LFS gave me two different answers too)

any info on this?

linda


Koi-lo December 6th 05 05:26 AM

Pearl Gourami--scales flaking off?
 

"LM" wrote in message
ups.com...
thanks for the info...

hmm.. bummer.

I'll keep water changes and keep my fingers crossed...

I'm also getting mixed info on whether hole-in-the-head disease is
contageous or not (some says yes, some says no, my two most favorite
LFS gave me two different answers too)

any info on this?

=====================
It may not be contagious but the conditions that caused it in one fish could
surely cause it in another.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o




LM December 6th 05 07:11 AM

Pearl Gourami--scales flaking off?
 
Good point.

i'll be religious about water changes (will go from 1x/mo to more
frequent.. may be 25% every week for a while?)

is there a way to measure water quality other than the standard
ammonia, nitrate, nitrite? based on those values, the tank wasn't
"dirty" (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10). the tank is also heavily
planted.

linda



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