PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

I live in the UK and have a 54x24x24 very well planted freshwater
community tank.
3 x 36W Triton flourescent tubes 12 hrs/day
2 x 150W MH 6,500k 8hrs/day
Eheim 2217 Canister filter
Eheim 2329 wet/dry filter

With the exception of vallis and cabomba, the other 180ish plants
(mixed varieties) are barely growing, so I've invested in a
pressureized CO2 setup with pH controller which I will have in
operation by the end of next week.

I've been using Seachem Flourish, Flourish Excel, Flourish Trace and
Flourish Iron to help the plants along and there has been some slight
growth over the past couple of weeks - problem is the cost of these
additives - it cost £73 for enough of the above Flourish products to
last about 6 months, then I came across Greg Watson's site.....

As far as I can tell, I need to get hold of ingredients for Plantex
CSM+B which comprises-

1.5% Magnesium (MG),
1.5% Magnesium (cheleted)
0.10% Copper (Cu)
7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted),
2.0% Maganese (Mn - Cheleted)
0.06% Molybedenum (MO)
0.40% Zinc (Zn - cheleted).
Boric Acid

A Google UK search for Plantex shows links to Greg's site plus some
others that sell weed-supressing membranes (!!??)
As I'm in the UK I doubt that shipping the chemicals from Canada is
going to be cost effective or allowed by Customs.
Rex Grigg's site gives some links to UK suppliers, but I can't find
the whole list of ingredients.

To make up the macronutrient mix I need-
MgSO4+7H2O (Magnesium Sulfate)
K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
KNO3

Is it possible to buy the ingredients to make CSM+B and the
macronutrients in the UK or is there a 'UK alternative'?

The results from my Nutrafin test kit indicate -

Date Temp Time NO2 PH Fe Fe GH
KH PO4 NO3 NH3/NH4 Ca

chelated 15/07/2006
14.30 0.1 240 140 7
Tap water
15/07/2006 26.2 14.00 0.1 8 0 0 240
100 2.0 50 0 120 Tank Water
22/07/2006 28.2 13.00 0.1 8.2 0 0.01 240
110 1.5 40 0 90 Tank Water

I'm a little suspicious of the pH reading - the tap water here is
hard/very hard (acording to our water supplier) and comes up around
7.4.and a pH test strip (litmus paper) gives 6.8 (!) Matching the
colours on the nutrafin kit I guess depends partly on how colour blind
I am. I find that depending on the angle at which the test tube is
held against the colour matcher almost any shade of the desired colour
could be interpreted, so I wouldn't say the above readings are gospel.

Many thanks in advance

Pete

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

I thought that table may not come out as hoped....

here's a precis -
tank temp 26C

week1/week2
NO2 0.1/0.1
pH 8.0 / 8.2
Fe 0.0/0.0
Fe Chelated 0.0/0.01
GH 240/240
KH 100/110
PO4 2.0/1.5
NO3 50/40
NH3/NH4 0/0
Ca 120/90

Tap water
NO2 0.1
GH 240
KH 140
NO3 7

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

Given that the CSM+B stuff is cheap by the pound and not flammable I'd
just mail order it frankly. I'm not aware of a substitute. Apparanly you
cam mail order KN03 which is a little scary but, whatever. It' usually
available locally as stump remover though or any good chemical supply
hose shold have it.

The amount of potassium sulphate is so damn low and since the phosphate
and nitrate are potassium salts I'm not sure it even makes any sense to
add it.

Magnesium sulphate is "epsom salts" found in any chemists.


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PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

I order from Greg, even though I'm in Canada. His stuff is so cheap, that
shipping is not an issue. I'm not sure what your customs inspections are
like, but all my packages have been opened and inspected. Especially the
KNO3. :)

I bought my CSM+B locally, as I'm only a few miles from the plant. I add
Potassium as KCL (local) and Phosphate as mono Potassium Phosphate (Greg).
Epsom Salts for the Magnesium of course.

You might also try local hydroponics shops for this stuff.

"Pete" wrote in message
...
I live in the UK and have a 54x24x24 very well planted freshwater
community tank.
3 x 36W Triton flourescent tubes 12 hrs/day
2 x 150W MH 6,500k 8hrs/day
Eheim 2217 Canister filter
Eheim 2329 wet/dry filter

With the exception of vallis and cabomba, the other 180ish plants
(mixed varieties) are barely growing, so I've invested in a
pressureized CO2 setup with pH controller which I will have in
operation by the end of next week.

I've been using Seachem Flourish, Flourish Excel, Flourish Trace and
Flourish Iron to help the plants along and there has been some slight
growth over the past couple of weeks - problem is the cost of these
additives - it cost £73 for enough of the above Flourish products to
last about 6 months, then I came across Greg Watson's site.....

As far as I can tell, I need to get hold of ingredients for Plantex
CSM+B which comprises-

1.5% Magnesium (MG),
1.5% Magnesium (cheleted)
0.10% Copper (Cu)
7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted),
2.0% Maganese (Mn - Cheleted)
0.06% Molybedenum (MO)
0.40% Zinc (Zn - cheleted).
Boric Acid

A Google UK search for Plantex shows links to Greg's site plus some
others that sell weed-supressing membranes (!!??)
As I'm in the UK I doubt that shipping the chemicals from Canada is
going to be cost effective or allowed by Customs.
Rex Grigg's site gives some links to UK suppliers, but I can't find
the whole list of ingredients.

To make up the macronutrient mix I need-
MgSO4+7H2O (Magnesium Sulfate)
K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
KNO3

Is it possible to buy the ingredients to make CSM+B and the
macronutrients in the UK or is there a 'UK alternative'?

The results from my Nutrafin test kit indicate -

Date Temp Time NO2 PH Fe Fe GH
KH PO4 NO3 NH3/NH4 Ca

chelated 15/07/2006
14.30 0.1 240 140 7
Tap water
15/07/2006 26.2 14.00 0.1 8 0 0 240
100 2.0 50 0 120 Tank Water
22/07/2006 28.2 13.00 0.1 8.2 0 0.01 240
110 1.5 40 0 90 Tank Water

I'm a little suspicious of the pH reading - the tap water here is
hard/very hard (acording to our water supplier) and comes up around
7.4.and a pH test strip (litmus paper) gives 6.8 (!) Matching the
colours on the nutrafin kit I guess depends partly on how colour blind
I am. I find that depending on the angle at which the test tube is
held against the colour matcher almost any shade of the desired colour
could be interpreted, so I wouldn't say the above readings are gospel.

Many thanks in advance

Pete

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

Pete, check
www.aquaessentials.com

They sell the KNO3, KH2PO4, CMS etc

Local UK vendor, also sells ADA products like Aqua soil.

Aqua soil + EI dosing does a really great job , all you focus on is CO2
tweaking then.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


Pete wrote:
I live in the UK and have a 54x24x24 very well planted freshwater
community tank.
3 x 36W Triton flourescent tubes 12 hrs/day
2 x 150W MH 6,500k 8hrs/day
Eheim 2217 Canister filter
Eheim 2329 wet/dry filter

With the exception of vallis and cabomba, the other 180ish plants
(mixed varieties) are barely growing, so I've invested in a
pressureized CO2 setup with pH controller which I will have in
operation by the end of next week.

I've been using Seachem Flourish, Flourish Excel, Flourish Trace and
Flourish Iron to help the plants along and there has been some slight
growth over the past couple of weeks - problem is the cost of these
additives - it cost £73 for enough of the above Flourish products to
last about 6 months, then I came across Greg Watson's site.....

As far as I can tell, I need to get hold of ingredients for Plantex
CSM+B which comprises-

1.5% Magnesium (MG),
1.5% Magnesium (cheleted)
0.10% Copper (Cu)
7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted),
2.0% Maganese (Mn - Cheleted)
0.06% Molybedenum (MO)
0.40% Zinc (Zn - cheleted).
Boric Acid

A Google UK search for Plantex shows links to Greg's site plus some
others that sell weed-supressing membranes (!!??)
As I'm in the UK I doubt that shipping the chemicals from Canada is
going to be cost effective or allowed by Customs.
Rex Grigg's site gives some links to UK suppliers, but I can't find
the whole list of ingredients.

To make up the macronutrient mix I need-
MgSO4+7H2O (Magnesium Sulfate)
K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
KNO3

Is it possible to buy the ingredients to make CSM+B and the
macronutrients in the UK or is there a 'UK alternative'?

The results from my Nutrafin test kit indicate -

Date Temp Time NO2 PH Fe Fe GH
KH PO4 NO3 NH3/NH4 Ca

chelated 15/07/2006
14.30 0.1 240 140 7
Tap water
15/07/2006 26.2 14.00 0.1 8 0 0 240
100 2.0 50 0 120 Tank Water
22/07/2006 28.2 13.00 0.1 8.2 0 0.01 240
110 1.5 40 0 90 Tank Water

I'm a little suspicious of the pH reading - the tap water here is
hard/very hard (acording to our water supplier) and comes up around
7.4.and a pH test strip (litmus paper) gives 6.8 (!) Matching the
colours on the nutrafin kit I guess depends partly on how colour blind
I am. I find that depending on the angle at which the test tube is
held against the colour matcher almost any shade of the desired colour
could be interpreted, so I wouldn't say the above readings are gospel.

Many thanks in advance

Pete

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

On 28 Jul 2006 20:50:49 -0700, wrote:

Pete, check
www.aquaessentials.com

They sell the KNO3, KH2PO4, CMS etc

Local UK vendor, also sells ADA products like Aqua soil.

Aqua soil + EI dosing does a really great job , all you focus on is CO2
tweaking then.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


Many thanks for your replies guys.

I can't believe that I ordered all the Flourish stuff from
www.aquaessentials.co.uk - I didn't even notice the PMDD link on the
left!!

Thanks again from me and my wallet!!

Pete

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:26:31 +0100, Pete
wrote:

I live in the UK and have a 54x24x24 very well planted freshwater
community tank.
3 x 36W Triton flourescent tubes 12 hrs/day
2 x 150W MH 6,500k 8hrs/day
Eheim 2217 Canister filter
Eheim 2329 wet/dry filter

With the exception of vallis and cabomba, the other 180ish plants
(mixed varieties) are barely growing, so I've invested in a
pressureized CO2 setup with pH controller which I will have in
operation by the end of next week.

I've been using Seachem Flourish, Flourish Excel, Flourish Trace and
Flourish Iron to help the plants along and there has been some slight
growth over the past couple of weeks - problem is the cost of these
additives - it cost £73 for enough of the above Flourish products to
last about 6 months, then I came across Greg Watson's site.....

As far as I can tell, I need to get hold of ingredients for Plantex
CSM+B which comprises-

1.5% Magnesium (MG),
1.5% Magnesium (cheleted)
0.10% Copper (Cu)
7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted),
2.0% Maganese (Mn - Cheleted)
0.06% Molybedenum (MO)
0.40% Zinc (Zn - cheleted).
Boric Acid

A Google UK search for Plantex shows links to Greg's site plus some
others that sell weed-supressing membranes (!!??)
As I'm in the UK I doubt that shipping the chemicals from Canada is
going to be cost effective or allowed by Customs.
Rex Grigg's site gives some links to UK suppliers, but I can't find
the whole list of ingredients.

To make up the macronutrient mix I need-
MgSO4+7H2O (Magnesium Sulfate)
K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
KNO3

Is it possible to buy the ingredients to make CSM+B and the
macronutrients in the UK or is there a 'UK alternative'?

The results from my Nutrafin test kit indicate -

Date Temp Time NO2 PH Fe Fe GH
KH PO4 NO3 NH3/NH4 Ca

chelated 15/07/2006
14.30 0.1 240 140 7
Tap water
15/07/2006 26.2 14.00 0.1 8 0 0 240
100 2.0 50 0 120 Tank Water
22/07/2006 28.2 13.00 0.1 8.2 0 0.01 240
110 1.5 40 0 90 Tank Water

I'm a little suspicious of the pH reading - the tap water here is
hard/very hard (acording to our water supplier) and comes up around
7.4.and a pH test strip (litmus paper) gives 6.8 (!) Matching the
colours on the nutrafin kit I guess depends partly on how colour blind
I am. I find that depending on the angle at which the test tube is
held against the colour matcher almost any shade of the desired colour
could be interpreted, so I wouldn't say the above readings are gospel.

Many thanks in advance

Pete

Hi Pete,

You chemistry types seem to ask for problems. I take the simple
approach, but limit the variety of plants. Just to show what I mean
by simple:

I make 20% water changes twice weekly, no additives, the refill is
straight from the tap. I use no fertilizers for the live plants, they
live on the waste from the fish. I don't use bio filters, just a
simple filter media, no charcoal, no CO2. The lights are all (5
tanks) "low light" and the plants chosen for low light conditions.

I can understand the desire for exotic environments, but there does
appear to be a price to be paid. I just have to weed my plants every
few months.

dick

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

Hi Pete,

You chemistry types seem to ask for problems. I take the simple
approach, but limit the variety of plants. Just to show what I mean
by simple:

I make 20% water changes twice weekly, no additives, the refill is
straight from the tap. I use no fertilizers for the live plants, they
live on the waste from the fish. I don't use bio filters, just a
simple filter media, no charcoal, no CO2. The lights are all (5
tanks) "low light" and the plants chosen for low light conditions.

I can understand the desire for exotic environments, but there does
appear to be a price to be paid. I just have to weed my plants every
few months.

dick

Hi Dick
Oh so very true!!

I've kept tropicals for 30+ years. As a teeneager I had 5 or 6 tanks
in an outside shed and much the same as you, my main community tank
looked nice but not spectacular.
I set up just 1 community tank when I moved here 20yrs ago and I done
a water change about once every 3 months, cleaned the glass every few
weeks and that was about all the maintenance I needed to do.

Then, about 3 months ago the tank started looking rather poorly, the
plants were not growing and I had an outbreak of beard algae which
really started to take over, so some helpful folks on another
newsgroup suggested getting rid of my undergravel filters/powerheads,
so I done that. At the same time I changed all the gravel (I never
liked the colour of the old stuff much anyway). Then it was suggested
that I needed a bio-filter, so I 'invested' £200 in an eheim 2329 to
compliment my existing eheim 2217.
Then it was suggested that the light levels were not enough (3x 36w
triton tubes), so I 'invested' £250 in 2 x 150w Metal Halide lamps,
then I'm told that I need CO2, so I 'invested' another £300 on a
pressurised CO2 setup (which is arriving next week), then I need plant
fertilisers - £75............. so it's cost me an arm and leg so far.

I have to confess that the tanks does now look good, and I'm hoping
that when the CO2 goes on it will look spectacular after a while -
just hope it doesn't end up costing another arm and a leg! - cos then
I'd be left with none!!

There's a few pics of the tank as it was before it got poorly and some
of the new setup at -
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/speedy99uk/my_photos
if you're interested.

Best wishes
Pete

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:48:48 +0100, Pete
wrote:


Hi Pete,

You chemistry types seem to ask for problems. I take the simple
approach, but limit the variety of plants. Just to show what I mean
by simple:

I make 20% water changes twice weekly, no additives, the refill is
straight from the tap. I use no fertilizers for the live plants, they
live on the waste from the fish. I don't use bio filters, just a
simple filter media, no charcoal, no CO2. The lights are all (5
tanks) "low light" and the plants chosen for low light conditions.

I can understand the desire for exotic environments, but there does
appear to be a price to be paid. I just have to weed my plants every
few months.

dick

Hi Dick
Oh so very true!!

I've kept tropicals for 30+ years. As a teeneager I had 5 or 6 tanks
in an outside shed and much the same as you, my main community tank
looked nice but not spectacular.
I set up just 1 community tank when I moved here 20yrs ago and I done
a water change about once every 3 months, cleaned the glass every few
weeks and that was about all the maintenance I needed to do.

Then, about 3 months ago the tank started looking rather poorly, the
plants were not growing and I had an outbreak of beard algae which
really started to take over, so some helpful folks on another
newsgroup suggested getting rid of my undergravel filters/powerheads,
so I done that. At the same time I changed all the gravel (I never
liked the colour of the old stuff much anyway). Then it was suggested
that I needed a bio-filter, so I 'invested' £200 in an eheim 2329 to
compliment my existing eheim 2217.
Then it was suggested that the light levels were not enough (3x 36w
triton tubes), so I 'invested' £250 in 2 x 150w Metal Halide lamps,
then I'm told that I need CO2, so I 'invested' another £300 on a
pressurised CO2 setup (which is arriving next week), then I need plant
fertilisers - £75............. so it's cost me an arm and leg so far.

I have to confess that the tanks does now look good, and I'm hoping
that when the CO2 goes on it will look spectacular after a while -
just hope it doesn't end up costing another arm and a leg! - cos then
I'd be left with none!!

There's a few pics of the tank as it was before it got poorly and some
of the new setup at -
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/speedy99uk/my_photos
if you're interested.

Best wishes
Pete

Fine looking tank Pete.

dick

PMDD, Plantex CSM+B, Greg Watson et al..
 

Pete wrote: Many thanks for your replies guys.

I can't believe that I ordered all the Flourish stuff from
www.aquaessentials.co.uk - I didn't even notice the PMDD link on the
left!!

Thanks again from me and my wallet!!
Pete

If you need to relieve your guilt, I do accept paypal:)

Regards,
Tom Barr


www.BarrReport.com