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Need an ID on these plants.
Went on a collection trip today, at Crum Creek in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania. Picked up two interesting plants, one a pretty stem plant, with somewhat red stems and green, almost scalloped thin leaves. The other a moss. http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg This is the first plant. Found it in Smedley Park, in about one foot of slow moving water. Water temperature felt cool. If I had to estimate I'd say it was arond 50F. Substrate was mostly silt and river gravel. The plant did have a root system. It did not attach to larger rocks, and was found only in the gravel and silt. The stand of plants was fairly large, covering large portions of a two foot square area. http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg This moss was found in another part of the creek, in fast moving waters. It did not attach to silt or gravel, and was only found on rocks. The sample I collected also contained a planaria (my first one! Whee!) numerous amphipods, several small limpet like inverts, and a few swimming things that were too small for me to ID without my microscope. There was also the usual giant stands of anacharis, but as I already had more of that than I know what to do with, I refrained from collecting any. In the past, I've seen various grasses in this area as well. I'm not at all sure if they were marginal or truly aquatic, but since I didn't see any on this trip, it was a moot point. Are there any folks out there who happen to recognize these plants? I do have access to some macrophotography equipment, and possibly a microscope if either will help in the identification. Thanks! -- "Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick! Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub Abraham Evangelista |
Need an ID on these plants.
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote: http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any other aquatic plant genus. Good luck acclimating it to "tropical" temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It grows around here, too. http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff. Disinfect with alum to kill nasties which abound in it. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
Need an ID on these plants.
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote: On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote: In article , Abraham Evangelista wrote: http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any other aquatic plant genus. Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M Barr has convinced me that red in plants is from poor nitrogen - in the lack of sifficient N they made red pigments not green and he does seem to be right about that. While I have no direct experience with this plant (other than killing some of its cousins) don't be surpeised if in grows in as green, not red, stemmage wise. Good luck acclimating it to "tropical" temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It grows around here, too. Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a bucket. :-( Bummer. How did it crack? Are you just going to silicone a sheet of glass over it or replace the tank. From personal experience plants don't last long in buckets at all. They look ok from the top but when you take them out you might find the only thing left if the part that looks good on the top. http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff. That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive! Wellllll, it manages ok at lower light. So an unheated tank with a small fluorescent would keep it alive. Good luck with both. I've love to hear they survived and look forward to pictures of them growing madly. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
Need an ID on these plants.
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:37:15 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote: In article , Abraham Evangelista wrote: On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote: In article , Abraham Evangelista wrote: http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any other aquatic plant genus. Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M Barr has convinced me that red in plants is from poor nitrogen - in the lack of sifficient N they made red pigments not green and he does seem to be right about that. I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red? I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank. The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder if it's not a question of light. While I have no direct experience with this plant (other than killing some of its cousins) don't be surpeised if in grows in as green, not red, stemmage wise. Along those same lines, I have some of that Potamogeton in a 2 gallon "nano" hex I'm working on. The stems are looking more brownish now, instead of red. In addition, the Cabomba which entered the tank with deep red stems is now showing stems as bright green as the fronds. A piece of "Red hygro" I have growing in the nano is also still red. I'm doing Seachem's flourish ferts, including excel. FWIW, the piece of hornwort I stuck in this tank has doubled in size over the last week, and no longer shows the brown/black algae coating that it shows in the 55 gallon, so perhaps the excel is doing the job, or perhaps I'm getting my fert routine right in the hex. I'm having a slight resurgence of the black and brown algae in the 55 that I thought I had licked when I went onto the EI method. I'm currently using Greg Watson's premix PMDD+CSM, 1 tsp every other day. (1 part KNO3, 1 part K2SO3, 1 part MgSO4, and 1 part CSM w/ boron mix.) At the end of a 2 day period, I'm showing no measurable nitrates, and even after adding the mix, I only show 5ppm. I even feed rather heavily, three times a day, and the tank is far from lightly stocked. To make a long story short, I'm thinking that the nitrate levels shown indicate that you're correct, and that I am indeed nitrogen limited in this tank. My current gameplan is: 1) Spread out my water changes. I was doing 50% once a week. I'll add another day on the end, and see if this doesn't help with the concentrations a little. 2) Stop vaccuming the gravel. I HAD nitrates, till I vacuumed during the last water change. I've added malasyian trumpet snails to deal with substrate compaction issues, so I think at this point, I'll just let the mulm collect. I really only vacuumed for asthetic reasons, and frankly, mulm is less unatractive than algae, so given the choice between the two, I'll pick the mulm. 3) Adjust dosing of PMDD mix till I can sustain a level of 5ppm nitrates over night. This is the lowest level the test kit I own can measure, and if it measures at all, it means that the plants were unable to utilize it all, meaning I should no longer be nitrogen limited. The whole point of EI is to ensure that everything is in a slight excess, correct? If I'm not showing nitrates, then they're not in excess, ergo, it's time to up the dosing. Am I on the right track here? Good luck acclimating it to "tropical" temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It grows around here, too. Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a bucket. :-( Bummer. How did it crack? I had it on a sheet of styrofoam, on top of a wire shelf. The shelf is rated to support the weight of the tank, but of course, wires weren't the best choice for a surface on which to place a tank. I had the styrofoam there to spead the weight across the wires, but from the looks of the crack, it seems that the tank weight compressed the sytrofoam more where the frame was, until the foam was eventually pressing back up on the bottom glass, causing the crack. Are you just going to silicone a sheet of glass over it or replace the tank. I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it as a terrarium. From personal experience plants don't last long in buckets at all. They look ok from the top but when you take them out you might find the only thing left if the part that looks good on the top. I had been growing out cuttings, and some less than spectacular specimins from the LFS in that tank, both to trade for credit at the LFS, and to have enough plants to fill out a 30 gallon I was intending to set up. (The 30 was intended to house some refugee platys from the summer pond.) The crack in the grow out has accelerated my plans. Friday saw me set up the stand, take the tank out of storage, fill it with substrate, (2 inches plain kitty litter, 1 inch of play sand, Jobes fert sticks every so often) and water. A filter borrowed from the 55 gallon (Which I had been intending to use anyway) and a packet of bio-spira provided a rapid start cycle, and the plants went in saturday afternoon, and the fish saturday evening. So far, no ammonia, no nitrates, despite the dozen or so adult platies, multiple dozens of guppy fry (I hadn't managed to get all the feeders out of the pond before they bred!) and the three fat corys. With luck, biospiral will live up to its claims, and the numbers will still look good tommorrow. I had intended to use the growout tank with EI and intense lighting, so I wouldn't have to do the same on the 30. Looks like I'll just have to do EI on the 30 too, till I get enough plant matter established to avoid the algal blooms. http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff. That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive! Wellllll, it manages ok at lower light. So an unheated tank with a small fluorescent would keep it alive. Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth. It's not spectacular like the hornwort, but to be fair, I've never met a moss that grew rapidly. There's some in the 55 too, but I can't check its progress since it's hidden behind more hornwort. I suppose this means I need less hornwort. :-) Good luck with both. I've love to hear they survived and look forward to pictures of them growing madly. Well I've been keeping tabs on both plants, I'll give it a few more days and then we can compare to see how it responds in EI, Seachem, and unaided conditions. -- "Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick! Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub Abraham Evangelista |
Need an ID on these plants.
I use a piece of 10mm (About 3/8 inch) ply under all my tanks, then a sheet
of 3-5mm high density foam rubber then the tank. I use a few heavy rocks in some of my tanks and the way I see it if I drop one of these in a tank without the ply it will go straight through, with the ply the worst should be a crack rather than a sudden catastrophic failure! "Abraham Evangelista" wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:37:15 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote: In article , Abraham Evangelista wrote: On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote: In article , Abraham Evangelista wrote: http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any other aquatic plant genus. Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M Barr has convinced me that red in plants is from poor nitrogen - in the lack of sifficient N they made red pigments not green and he does seem to be right about that. I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red? I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank. The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder if it's not a question of light. While I have no direct experience with this plant (other than killing some of its cousins) don't be surpeised if in grows in as green, not red, stemmage wise. Along those same lines, I have some of that Potamogeton in a 2 gallon "nano" hex I'm working on. The stems are looking more brownish now, instead of red. In addition, the Cabomba which entered the tank with deep red stems is now showing stems as bright green as the fronds. A piece of "Red hygro" I have growing in the nano is also still red. I'm doing Seachem's flourish ferts, including excel. FWIW, the piece of hornwort I stuck in this tank has doubled in size over the last week, and no longer shows the brown/black algae coating that it shows in the 55 gallon, so perhaps the excel is doing the job, or perhaps I'm getting my fert routine right in the hex. I'm having a slight resurgence of the black and brown algae in the 55 that I thought I had licked when I went onto the EI method. I'm currently using Greg Watson's premix PMDD+CSM, 1 tsp every other day. (1 part KNO3, 1 part K2SO3, 1 part MgSO4, and 1 part CSM w/ boron mix.) At the end of a 2 day period, I'm showing no measurable nitrates, and even after adding the mix, I only show 5ppm. I even feed rather heavily, three times a day, and the tank is far from lightly stocked. To make a long story short, I'm thinking that the nitrate levels shown indicate that you're correct, and that I am indeed nitrogen limited in this tank. My current gameplan is: 1) Spread out my water changes. I was doing 50% once a week. I'll add another day on the end, and see if this doesn't help with the concentrations a little. 2) Stop vaccuming the gravel. I HAD nitrates, till I vacuumed during the last water change. I've added malasyian trumpet snails to deal with substrate compaction issues, so I think at this point, I'll just let the mulm collect. I really only vacuumed for asthetic reasons, and frankly, mulm is less unatractive than algae, so given the choice between the two, I'll pick the mulm. 3) Adjust dosing of PMDD mix till I can sustain a level of 5ppm nitrates over night. This is the lowest level the test kit I own can measure, and if it measures at all, it means that the plants were unable to utilize it all, meaning I should no longer be nitrogen limited. The whole point of EI is to ensure that everything is in a slight excess, correct? If I'm not showing nitrates, then they're not in excess, ergo, it's time to up the dosing. Am I on the right track here? Good luck acclimating it to "tropical" temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It grows around here, too. Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a bucket. :-( Bummer. How did it crack? I had it on a sheet of styrofoam, on top of a wire shelf. The shelf is rated to support the weight of the tank, but of course, wires weren't the best choice for a surface on which to place a tank. I had the styrofoam there to spead the weight across the wires, but from the looks of the crack, it seems that the tank weight compressed the sytrofoam more where the frame was, until the foam was eventually pressing back up on the bottom glass, causing the crack. Are you just going to silicone a sheet of glass over it or replace the tank. I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it as a terrarium. From personal experience plants don't last long in buckets at all. They look ok from the top but when you take them out you might find the only thing left if the part that looks good on the top. I had been growing out cuttings, and some less than spectacular specimins from the LFS in that tank, both to trade for credit at the LFS, and to have enough plants to fill out a 30 gallon I was intending to set up. (The 30 was intended to house some refugee platys from the summer pond.) The crack in the grow out has accelerated my plans. Friday saw me set up the stand, take the tank out of storage, fill it with substrate, (2 inches plain kitty litter, 1 inch of play sand, Jobes fert sticks every so often) and water. A filter borrowed from the 55 gallon (Which I had been intending to use anyway) and a packet of bio-spira provided a rapid start cycle, and the plants went in saturday afternoon, and the fish saturday evening. So far, no ammonia, no nitrates, despite the dozen or so adult platies, multiple dozens of guppy fry (I hadn't managed to get all the feeders out of the pond before they bred!) and the three fat corys. With luck, biospiral will live up to its claims, and the numbers will still look good tommorrow. I had intended to use the growout tank with EI and intense lighting, so I wouldn't have to do the same on the 30. Looks like I'll just have to do EI on the 30 too, till I get enough plant matter established to avoid the algal blooms. http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff. That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive! Wellllll, it manages ok at lower light. So an unheated tank with a small fluorescent would keep it alive. Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth. It's not spectacular like the hornwort, but to be fair, I've never met a moss that grew rapidly. There's some in the 55 too, but I can't check its progress since it's hidden behind more hornwort. I suppose this means I need less hornwort. :-) Good luck with both. I've love to hear they survived and look forward to pictures of them growing madly. Well I've been keeping tabs on both plants, I'll give it a few more days and then we can compare to see how it responds in EI, Seachem, and unaided conditions. -- "Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick! Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub Abraham Evangelista |
Need an ID on these plants.
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote: I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red? I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank. Sorta. Given enough N I have some crypts that are just plain green. I can tell when the N is low because they start to get more bonze color. Some C. blassi I got were lovely and red. When I put them in a tank that was well fertilized they went all green. Or more green anyway. So, no, plants that aren't natrually just green will not go green in the presense of sufficient N but they will tend more towards that. The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder if it's not a question of light. Sure, leaves close to a stong light source will tend to be more red. Not sure why this is, and even in the presense of apparanlty sifficient N. Tom? You reading this? Am I on the right track here? Yabbut 5ppm N is kinda low. I aim for somwhere in the neighborhood of 15-30. The algae is caused by excessive ammonia. Try getting all the crud out and doing two big (80%) water changes then fertiize properlu. I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it as a terrarium. There's lots of places to get cheap/free glass. Thrift shops, junkyards, craigslist.org. Jobes fert sticks Ack! Also known as "instant algae". I wouldn't use these. Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth. Excellent. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
Need an ID on these plants.
|
Need an ID on these plants.
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote: Yabbut 5ppm N is kinda low. I aim for somwhere in the neighborhood of 15-30. They seem to be all over the place. When I tested shortly after the fertilization I only showed 5ppm. Tested again before bedtime last night, and showed 20ppm. I tested when I woke up again and saw 10ppm, and was back to 5ppm after dinner. I'm starting to suspect my test kit, so tommorow I'm off to the shop to pick up another brand. Hobby nitrate kits are worthless. Only the LaMotte/Hach kits are accurate. But I'm not showing any ammonia. And with the number of plants in the tank, I shouldn't be showing any either. If there's a lot of waste it may be utilized by the algae before it gets to register on the scale. To put it another way you don't typically have these problems in clean tanks. There's lots of places to get cheap/free glass. Thrift shops, junkyards, craigslist.org. Come to think of it, I probably have another busted 10 lying around here somewhere if noone's walked off with it yet. Hadn't thought to hit the junkyards. Maybe the local freecycle? Sure. Cheap/free glass is easy to find if you look around. The Potamogeton is only an inch from the suface at this point, and if it keeps going like this, it should hit air before the week is out. Oddly, in the presence of the more intense lighting, it seems to be going more green on its leaves. Since the leaves are translucent, the effect prompted one of our houseguests to ask why I'd put a plastic plant in a tank of already healthy live growth. Cool. It would be enat to see just this in a tank. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
Need an ID on these plants.
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:18:45 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote: In article , Abraham Evangelista wrote: snip The Potamogeton is only an inch from the suface at this point, and if it keeps going like this, it should hit air before the week is out. Oddly, in the presence of the more intense lighting, it seems to be going more green on its leaves. Since the leaves are translucent, the effect prompted one of our houseguests to ask why I'd put a plastic plant in a tank of already healthy live growth. Cool. It would be enat to see just this in a tank. Ask and ye shall recieve! Fontinalis http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/hex_01_small.jpg http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/30_02_small.jpg Potamogeton http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/hex_02_small.jpg http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/30_01_small.jpg -- "Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick! Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub Abraham Evangelista |
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