So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it down to 3
different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be a good
match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some variety, need similar
chemistry.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition to a 4" pleco
and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a problem with the juveniles,
he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use, would they work?

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be a better
choice?

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you the
background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I have had
angels for many years and they are starting to go (old age I think). I have
standard gravel with a undergravel filter and the pH is consistently between
6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get more angles I was thinking of going with fish
with more of a personality. Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to
mind. I don't want to turn the tank upside down by changing the gravel for
crushed coral to get the hard water so African cichlids are out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would work under
those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3 varieties that can coexist
given enough structure. I plan on getting them young, how many of each
should I get? Would I need to cull them out for a pair of each type or
would 3 or 4 of a type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

"Steve" wrote in message
t...
I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it down to
3
different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I think that's a nice mix of medium-large fish with similar dispositions.
I've never had Blue Acara, but I've had Aequidens tetrameris which I
think are similar to the Blue Acara. There are many Geophagus, with
jurupari being the most common around here.

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be a good
match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some variety, need similar
chemistry.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition to a 4"
pleco
and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a problem with the
juveniles,
he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use, would they
work?

You don't _need_ dither. In some cases, you might be better without.
Seeing as your selection is mostly calm slow moving fish, you might be
better off without dither. ymmv I'd go with the larger Rainbow shark.
My experience has been that they are slightly less agressive than their
cousins, the Red-tail shark. If you don't get a gold severum,
considering getting an albino Rainbow shark.

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be a
better
choice?

Not better choices, just different choices, like Flag cichlids,
Festivums, Firemouth etc.

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

In a 55g? Yes, I think so.

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

You would have to ask him ;~)

NetMax

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you the
background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I have
had
angels for many years and they are starting to go (old age I think). I
have
standard gravel with a undergravel filter and the pH is consistently
between
6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get more angles I was thinking of going with
fish
with more of a personality. Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to
mind. I don't want to turn the tank upside down by changing the gravel
for
crushed coral to get the hard water so African cichlids are out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would work
under
those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3 varieties that can
coexist
given enough structure. I plan on getting them young, how many of each
should I get? Would I need to cull them out for a pair of each type or
would 3 or 4 of a type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

NetMax,
Thanks for the input.
You mentioned Firemouth. I really like them and they are readily available
here but thought they would be too aggressive for Severums. If I'm wrong
that would be good news. I like both the Festivum and Flag but can'tfind
them locally.
Steve

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

"Steve" wrote in message
t...
I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it down to
3
different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I think that's a nice mix of medium-large fish with similar dispositions.
I've never had Blue Acara, but I've had Aequidens tetrameris which I
think are similar to the Blue Acara. There are many Geophagus, with
jurupari being the most common around here.

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be a good
match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some variety, need similar
chemistry.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition to a 4"
pleco
and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a problem with the
juveniles,
he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use, would they
work?

You don't _need_ dither. In some cases, you might be better without.
Seeing as your selection is mostly calm slow moving fish, you might be
better off without dither. ymmv I'd go with the larger Rainbow shark.
My experience has been that they are slightly less agressive than their
cousins, the Red-tail shark. If you don't get a gold severum,
considering getting an albino Rainbow shark.

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be a
better
choice?

Not better choices, just different choices, like Flag cichlids,
Festivums, Firemouth etc.

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

In a 55g? Yes, I think so.

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

You would have to ask him ;~)

NetMax

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you the
background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I have
had
angels for many years and they are starting to go (old age I think). I
have
standard gravel with a undergravel filter and the pH is consistently
between
6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get more angles I was thinking of going with
fish
with more of a personality. Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to
mind. I don't want to turn the tank upside down by changing the gravel
for
crushed coral to get the hard water so African cichlids are out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would work
under
those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3 varieties that can
coexist
given enough structure. I plan on getting them young, how many of each
should I get? Would I need to cull them out for a pair of each type or
would 3 or 4 of a type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

If of equal size, I'd expect a Firemouth to be more aggressive than a
Severum, however Severums grow larger than Firemouths, and if you
purchase them young, with the Severums starting out larger than the
Firemouths, then I'd say your chances of relative tranquility to be very
good. JMO, always seek other opinions

NetMax

"Steve" wrote in message
et...
NetMax,
Thanks for the input.
You mentioned Firemouth. I really like them and they are readily
available
here but thought they would be too aggressive for Severums. If I'm
wrong
that would be good news. I like both the Festivum and Flag but
can'tfind
them locally.
Steve

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

"Steve" wrote in message
t...
I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it
down to
3
different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

snip

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

Steve,
NetMax gives his usual excellent advice, but I must differ a bit
regarding the firemouth recommendation. Firemouths are Central American
cichlids, not South American, so they are really not what you are looking
for. I also expect they might have a bit of difficulty with your very
acidic water, though I have no personal experience dealing with water
that acidic.

Meph

"Steve" wrote in
et:

NetMax,
Thanks for the input.
You mentioned Firemouth. I really like them and they are readily
available here but thought they would be too aggressive for Severums.
If I'm wrong that would be good news. I like both the Festivum and
Flag but can'tfind them locally.
Steve

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

"Steve" wrote in message
t...
I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it
down to 3 different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I think that's a nice mix of medium-large fish with similar
dispositions. I've never had Blue Acara, but I've had Aequidens
tetrameris which I think are similar to the Blue Acara. There are
many Geophagus, with jurupari being the most common around here.

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be a
good match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some variety,
need similar chemistry.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition to a
4" pleco and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a problem
with the juveniles, he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use, would
they work?

You don't _need_ dither. In some cases, you might be better without.
Seeing as your selection is mostly calm slow moving fish, you might
be better off without dither. ymmv I'd go with the larger Rainbow
shark. My experience has been that they are slightly less agressive
than their cousins, the Red-tail shark. If you don't get a gold
severum, considering getting an albino Rainbow shark.

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be a
better choice?

Not better choices, just different choices, like Flag cichlids,
Festivums, Firemouth etc.

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

In a 55g? Yes, I think so.

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

You would have to ask him ;~)

NetMax

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are
appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you the
background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I
have had angels for many years and they are starting to go (old age
I think). I have standard gravel with a undergravel filter and the
pH is consistently between 6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get more
angles I was thinking of going with fish with more of a
personality. Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to mind. I
don't want to turn the tank upside down by changing the gravel for
crushed coral to get the hard water so African cichlids are out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would work
under those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3 varieties
that can coexist given enough structure. I plan on getting them
young, how many of each should I get? Would I need to cull them
out for a pair of each type or would 3 or 4 of a type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

"Steve" wrote in
t:

I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it down
to 3 different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be a
good match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some variety, need
similar chemistry.

Eartheaters (Geophagus, Satanoperca, Gymnogeophagus, etc.) come in many
sizes and temperaments. Would really need to know which eartheater you
are considering. But with all these fish, temperament and compatibility
vary among individuals. I would say your proposal stands a reasonable
chance of success, however. Personally, however, with your water
chemistry, I would go with apistogramma, Rams, etc. 55 gallon tanks are
odd shaped tanks, being so narrow. They are really better for small or
slow moving fish. Severums and some species of eartheaters will
eventually outgrow them.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition to a 4"
pleco and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a problem with
the juveniles, he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use, would they
work?

The best dither choice for a South American tank is silver dollars (tiger
barbs are Asian). They are big and dumb, but do a good job distracting
the more aggressive fish.

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be a
better choice?

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

Yes. There is not much bottom area in a 55 gallon tank. There would not
be enough room for four pairs to set up territories.

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

It is not generally realized, but most eartheaters prefer to be in
groups. On the other hand, I have kept single eartheaters and they seem
to do okay by themselves.

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are
appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you the
background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I have
had angels for many years and they are starting to go (old age I
think). I have standard gravel with a undergravel filter and the pH
is consistently between 6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get more angles I
was thinking of going with fish with more of a personality.
Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to mind. I don't want to turn
the tank upside down by changing the gravel for crushed coral to get
the hard water so African cichlids are out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would work
under those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3 varieties that
can coexist given enough structure. I plan on getting them young, how
many of each should I get? Would I need to cull them out for a pair
of each type or would 3 or 4 of a type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

Thanks as always for refining my answers ;o) Did you know that
Firemouths are listed as originating in Asia: Mekong basin in Laos,
Yunnan, Thailand, Cambodia and Viet Nam; Southeast Asia, and were later
re-distributed (from fishindex.com). Fishprofile.com has them listed as
Central American (Yucatan, 6.5 pH) which probably agrees with articles
I've read from Belize Mexico on the 2 species found there.

I have a tendency to mix fish by temperament, rather than by bio-tope,
only keeping an eye towards not mixing water extremes. This is evident
in some of my suggestions. I suspect they would be hardy in 6.3pH but I
have no acidic-water/Firemouth experience either.

NetMax

"Mephistopheles" wrote in
message hlink.net...
Steve,
NetMax gives his usual excellent advice, but I must differ a bit
regarding the firemouth recommendation. Firemouths are Central
American
cichlids, not South American, so they are really not what you are
looking
for. I also expect they might have a bit of difficulty with your very
acidic water, though I have no personal experience dealing with water
that acidic.

Meph

"Steve" wrote in
et:

NetMax,
Thanks for the input.
You mentioned Firemouth. I really like them and they are readily
available here but thought they would be too aggressive for Severums.
If I'm wrong that would be good news. I like both the Festivum and
Flag but can'tfind them locally.
Steve

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

"Steve" wrote in message
t...
I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it
down to 3 different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I think that's a nice mix of medium-large fish with similar
dispositions. I've never had Blue Acara, but I've had Aequidens
tetrameris which I think are similar to the Blue Acara. There are
many Geophagus, with jurupari being the most common around here.

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be a
good match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some variety,
need similar chemistry.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition to
a
4" pleco and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a problem
with the juveniles, he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use, would
they work?

You don't _need_ dither. In some cases, you might be better
without.
Seeing as your selection is mostly calm slow moving fish, you might
be better off without dither. ymmv I'd go with the larger Rainbow
shark. My experience has been that they are slightly less agressive
than their cousins, the Red-tail shark. If you don't get a gold
severum, considering getting an albino Rainbow shark.

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be a
better choice?

Not better choices, just different choices, like Flag cichlids,
Festivums, Firemouth etc.

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

In a 55g? Yes, I think so.

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

You would have to ask him ;~)

NetMax

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are
appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you the
background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I
have had angels for many years and they are starting to go (old
age
I think). I have standard gravel with a undergravel filter and
the
pH is consistently between 6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get more
angles I was thinking of going with fish with more of a
personality. Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to mind. I
don't want to turn the tank upside down by changing the gravel for
crushed coral to get the hard water so African cichlids are out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would
work
under those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3 varieties
that can coexist given enough structure. I plan on getting them
young, how many of each should I get? Would I need to cull them
out for a pair of each type or would 3 or 4 of a type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

Eartheaters (Geophagus, Satanoperca, Gymnogeophagus, etc.) come in many
sizes and temperaments. Would really need to know which eartheater you
are considering. But with all these fish, temperament and compatibility
vary among individuals. I would say your proposal stands a reasonable
chance of success, however. Personally, however, with your water
chemistry, I would go with apistogramma, Rams, etc. 55 gallon tanks are
odd shaped tanks, being so narrow. They are really better for small or
slow moving fish. Severums and some species of eartheaters will
eventually outgrow them.

I plan on getting Geophagus jurupari. I believe they generally have a good
disposition.

Yes. There is not much bottom area in a 55 gallon tank. There would not
be enough room for four pairs to set up territories.

I agree, I am going with 3 pairs.

I would like to thank you and NetMax for great input. It's people like you
that keep these groups alive.

Steve

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

"NetMax" wrote in
:

Thanks as always for refining my answers ;o) Did you know that
Firemouths are listed as originating in Asia: Mekong basin in Laos,
Yunnan, Thailand, Cambodia and Viet Nam; Southeast Asia, and were
later re-distributed (from fishindex.com).

Clearly a typo. The only Asian cichlids I know of are the chromides
(genus Etroplus). I always go to fishbase.org if I want reliable
information about fish species on the Internet. It is intended for
professional fishery managers/ichthyologists, so tends to be more
reliable. It correctly lists firemouths as Central American.

Fishprofile.com has them listed as
Central American (Yucatan, 6.5 pH) which probably agrees with articles
I've read from Belize Mexico on the 2 species found there.

My book on American cichlids says the authors collected firemouths in
streams in Mexico with a pH between 7 and 8.5. Baensch suggests a
neutral pH for breeding. Fish base lists a pH range between 6.5 and
7.5.

I have a tendency to mix fish by temperament, rather than by bio-tope,
only keeping an eye towards not mixing water extremes. This is
evident in some of my suggestions. I suspect they would be hardy in
6.3pH but I have no acidic-water/Firemouth experience either.

I actually tried a pair of firemouths in my South American cichlid tank
for awhile. Worked OK, but once they started breeding they became the
dominant fish and took over half of my six-foot tank. So for the rest
of the fish (Severums, eartheaters, etc.), the tank became a three-foot
tank. That is when I decided to get rid of them.

Meph


NetMax

"Mephistopheles" wrote in
message hlink.net...
Steve,
NetMax gives his usual excellent advice, but I must differ a bit
regarding the firemouth recommendation. Firemouths are Central
American cichlids, not South American, so they are really not what
you are looking for. I also expect they might have a bit of
difficulty with your very acidic water, though I have no personal
experience dealing with water that acidic.

Meph

"Steve" wrote in
et:

NetMax,
Thanks for the input.
You mentioned Firemouth. I really like them and they are readily
available here but thought they would be too aggressive for
Severums. If I'm wrong that would be good news. I like both the
Festivum and Flag but can'tfind them locally.
Steve

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

"Steve" wrote in message
t...
I am going with some So. American Cichlids and have narrowed it
down to 3 different species

Gold Severum
Green Severum
Blue Acara
Geophagus

I think that's a nice mix of medium-large fish with similar
dispositions. I've never had Blue Acara, but I've had Aequidens
tetrameris which I think are similar to the Blue Acara. There are
many Geophagus, with jurupari being the most common around here.

I would like to some input from the group as to if this would be
a good match, i.e. get along reasonably well, offer some
variety, need similar chemistry.

Ideally I would like to end up with a pair of each in addition
to a 4" pleco and a 3" red-tailed shark (if he ends up being a
problem with the juveniles, he goes). Some concerns/questions:

Do I need a dither fish? I have 6 tiger barbs I could use,
would they work?

You don't _need_ dither. In some cases, you might be better
without. Seeing as your selection is mostly calm slow moving fish,
you might be better off without dither. ymmv I'd go with the
larger Rainbow shark. My experience has been that they are
slightly less agressive than their cousins, the Red-tail shark.
If you don't get a gold severum, considering getting an albino
Rainbow shark.

Rather than have 2 of the 4 species be a Severum would there be
a better choice?

Not better choices, just different choices, like Flag cichlids,
Festivums, Firemouth etc.

Given the potential size, are 4 pairs too much?

In a 55g? Yes, I think so.

Would a Geophagus be happy alone to reduce the total quantity?

You would have to ask him ;~)

NetMax

I would like to hear the voice of experience, thoughts are
appreciated.

About 2-3 weeks ago I posted the message below which gives you
the background information needed.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I have a 55 gal well established tank the needs repopulating. I
have had angels for many years and they are starting to go (old
age I think). I have standard gravel with a undergravel filter
and the pH is consistently between 6.3 and 6.5. Rather than get
more angles I was thinking of going with fish with more of a
personality. Non-angel and non-discus Cichlids came to mind.
I don't want to turn the tank upside down by changing the gravel
for crushed coral to get the hard water so African cichlids are
out.

Here is my question: What types of So American cichlids would
work under those conditions. Ideally I would like to have 3
varieties that can coexist given enough structure. I plan on
getting them young, how many of each should I get? Would I need
to cull them out for a pair of each type or would 3 or 4 of a
type work?

So. American Cichlids Suggestions Cont'd
 

"Steve" wrote in
et:

Eartheaters (Geophagus, Satanoperca, Gymnogeophagus, etc.) come in
many sizes and temperaments. Would really need to know which
eartheater you are considering. But with all these fish, temperament
and compatibility vary among individuals. I would say your proposal
stands a reasonable chance of success, however. Personally, however,
with your water chemistry, I would go with apistogramma, Rams, etc.
55 gallon tanks are odd shaped tanks, being so narrow. They are
really better for small or slow moving fish. Severums and some
species of eartheaters will eventually outgrow them.

I plan on getting Geophagus jurupari. I believe they generally have a
good disposition.

The current name is Satanoperca jurupari. These can get fairly large,
sometimes up to 25 centimeters. They are quite peaceful for cichlids,
but on the other hand, really cannot defend themselves against a
determined aggressor. I would worry that three large pairs of Severums,
in a tank that size, would eventually spell doom for the eartheater.
Once had a Gymnogeophagus balzani in a six-foot tank with two pairs of
Severums. Unfortunately, both pairs got to breeding at the same time and
each took over half the tank which left no room for the balzani. The
poor fish got bounced back and forth like a ping pong ball and eventually
expired from exhaustion.


Yes. There is not much bottom area in a 55 gallon tank. There would
not be enough room for four pairs to set up territories.

I agree, I am going with 3 pairs.

I would like to thank you and NetMax for great input. It's people
like you that keep these groups alive.

Your welcome. Another fish you might consider is the keyhole cichlid.
These are very peaceful, have lots of personality, would go well in your
water conditions, and are smaller than the other fish you are planning
on, you so will not be seen as much of a threat. I currently have one in
my six-foot South American cichlid tank with much bigger fish, and he is
doing great.

Steve