Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

You're telling a person who has a common Goldie, which reach between
14-16" long, have good sized body mass, to get a 10g tank. You made no
mention what so ever about needing a larger in the near future.
Hence the point of my problem with what you told them.
Why not tell them the entire truth?

Why keep harassing me over it? I tell everyone who buys a GF that they can
reach a foot long IN TIME which they can if they live that long. Perhaps
one in 100 will survive to out grow a 10 gallon tank.

You seem to have an issue with somebody paying $.20 for a Goldie.

You seem to have an issue on what people should tell others. For all I
care they can buy a 150g tank for a 10 cent feeder. That's their decision
to make. Not mine and not yours.

Some
of those poeple actually prefer them, enjoy them and would like to care
for them properly.

Of course. It's still their decision to make. Not our decision. When I
tell people they can get a foot long I never once had the person say, "Oh
Geeze, I better buy a 55g tank."

It doesn't matter how little it cost. It still deserves proper
treatment and proper housing!!
This is something you don't agree with.

No, it's something you want to get ugly over for some reason. You think
everyone should do and say as you want them to do and say here,.... and
that's not going to happen.

Same with your treatment of Bettas. It doesn't matter how many idiots
house them in tiny bowls, it doesn't make it right for that fish!!

No one said it did. Once the person buys the fish you and I have nothing to
say about what they do with it. They will do as they please.

It cruel for them to be kept in such tiny bowls.
It's deadly to house a Goldfish in something too small.

Which is a complete LIE since. Maybe you need to expend you energy getting
laws passed which dictate what size tank people must purchase before they
buy even 10 cent fish. You wont change the world here.

(either death
by polluted water from their own waste, or death from stunted growth.

Sure.... which can also happen in a neglected 120g tank.

That's when their growth is stunted and it also stunts their internal
organs making them croak way too soon.) Both of which are very, very
wrong, yet you seem to think it's perfectly fine.

No, you're just putting words in someone's mouth because YOU feel you're
right about this and will belittle someone who disagrees.

It's not. It's cruel treatment.

Then have laws passed that everyone who buys a GF of any kind must also
purchase a 20g or 30g tank.

It makes no difference what the poor thing cost.

Yes, the poor things! If you were so concerned you wouldn't be breeding
fish and selling them so stop pulling the "poor things" act on me.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I tell everyone who buys a GF that they can
reach a foot long IN TIME which they can if they live that long. Perhaps
one in 100 will survive to out grow a 10 gallon tank

And why is that?
Because of people telling them bad, bogus, false or misleading
information about their proper care.

It doesn't matter how little it cost. It still deserves proper
treatment and proper housing!!
This is something you don't agree with.

No, it's something you want to get ugly over for some reason. You think
everyone should do and say as you want them to do and say here,.... and
that's not going to happen.

I don't think everyone should do as I say. That's just silly.
I do however, have a problem with people giving out bad or bogus
information, or half truths when it comes to the proper care of fish.
You keep missing that point. Anyone can do the research and see what
I'm saying is the truth.
It's important that you tell them the entire truth right off the bat,
not half the proper care, but all of it.

Some
of those poeple actually prefer them, enjoy them and would like to care
for them properly.

Of course. It's still their decision to make. Not our decision. When I
tell people they can get a foot long I never once had the person say, "Oh
Geeze, I better buy a 55g tank."

Of course they're going to do what they want to do anyway.
However, if more people actually told them the proper care and housing
in the FIRST PLACE there wouldn't be so many Goldfish, as well as other
species, being kept in such horrible conditions.

You didn't tell the original poster that they'll need a much larger
tank than a 10g soon.
Don't you think they might have wanted to know that in the first place?
Of course they would!!
I've heard it too many times....well why didn't they tell me that when
I bought the thing.
In a way, you are adding to the problem.
Now if this person took your advice and bought the Goldie a 10g, then
finds out it was really too small of a tank in the first place and now
they've got to go out and buy another entire set up, you don't think
that's going to make them ticked off, or worse....ticked off and say
forget it and leave the poor thing to die from being stunted.
That's why telling people only some of the tank requirments isn't
right.
I guess that's lost on you.


It cruel for them to be kept in such tiny bowls.
It's deadly to house a Goldfish in something too small.

Which is a complete LIE since. Maybe you need to expend you energy getting
laws passed which dictate what size tank people must purchase before they
buy even 10 cent fish. You wont change the world here.

(either death
by polluted water from their own waste, or death from stunted growth.

Sure.... which can also happen in a neglected 120g tank.

Well duh. Anyone knows that can happen with a polluted tank, but it's
surely not going to stunt a goldie living in a 120g. That was just a
silly, hot headed response which meant nothing. You cannot compare a
Goldie living in a 3g tank vs. a 120g. Ridiculous.

Do you undestand what happens to a fish that has been stunted because
it's been stuffed into a tank that's way too small, no matter much
water is changed weekly?

To say that stunting a fish isn't deadly, that it's a complete lie, is
also ridiculous.
I hope you will research the subject and learn more about it.
If a fish's growth is stunted, it dies much earlier than it's normal
lifespan. That is *deadly*.
You claim this is a lie. There is proof on the subject. Please,
research this so that you can understand what actually happens to them.
They don't just stay smaller.
Stunting will eventually kill them.


That's when their growth is stunted and it also stunts their internal
organs making them croak way too soon.) Both of which are very, very
wrong, yet you seem to think it's perfectly fine.

No, you're just putting words in someone's mouth because YOU feel you're
right about this and will belittle someone who disagrees.

Explain how I'm putting words into somebody's mouth? This enitre
statement made no sense in regard to what you are replying to.

It's not. It's cruel treatment.

Then have laws passed that everyone who buys a GF of any kind must also
purchase a 20g or 30g tank.

You know what...there should be laws regarding proper care for every
animal, not just 4 legged animals.

Yes, the poor things! If you were so concerned you wouldn't be breeding
fish and selling them so stop pulling the "poor things" act on me.

Sweetie...You know nothing of my breeding program.
I don't breed for profit, for quantity, or just because I have a male
and female.
You've never asked me how often I breed, or know anything about my
breeding program.
Again...ridiculous to pounce on me for it.
I haven't bred in over 9 yrs because 1...either the stock wasn't worthy
to breed, but were worthy to keep as pets, or 2. the *worthy* pair
didn't spawn and I refuse to spawn just to spawn them. It's about
fixing a line, or making it better, or simply because the line is so
worthy of breeding.
Several yrs back I had 4 White Opaques from Bonnie McKinnley's line.
Gorgeous fish.
However, out of the 2 pairs only 1 m & f were worthy of spawning. The
male did not have a clue and refused to spawn. I wanted so badly to
have a White Opaque line going, but I do have a set of breeding ethics
that I stand by firmly.
The shops I sold to yrs back (2 different ones) sold them to folks that
had the proper set ups. Now this was before they became so popular and
all the Betta/vase/peaceLily disaster started. So people back then
actually kept them properly.
You couldn't find an Ivy bowl in a pet shop to save your life!
15 + or - yrs ago their popularity increased (as well as the
mispronunciation of Betta to "bait-uh") and so did the poor conditions
for them. Thanks mainly to the chain stores, and then the local stores
that opened that just wanted to make more money instead of actually
being truthful to hobbyists.
Then came the idiot with the Betta and peace Lily in a vase and told
people that they eat algae off the roots of the Lily. Duh. These fish
are carnivores. Do you think I sat by and did nothing?
Absolutely NOT. I have worked long and hard for yrs about getting the
proper care of these fish out there, as well as other fish, and you
aren't going to say anything to sway me not to.
I will correct bogus information every time I see it.
If you don't want me correcting something that you've said that's
incorrect, or even harmful to a fish, then don't say it. Pretty simple.
If somebody else corrects you it's fine..no worries....yet when I do
you have a flaming fit and call me a liar.
Why don't you simply filter me out. That way you won't have to get your
panties in a bunch when I do. = )