On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:29:21 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...
Moments before spontaneously combusting Richard Sexton at
was heard to say:

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:

"Flash Wilson" wrote in message
...
I am constantly impressed by the resilience of fish.
I could only keep half of their pH 6 or below water, and had to
top it up with pH 8 from the tap. So much for all this "only
change 0.1pH at a time"...
============
I think NetMax (correct me if I'm wrong) said it's the other
dissolved things in the water and not the PH itself that kills them
if there's a difference. I know if I don't acclimate fish from
certain stores where the PH is low and the water is soft to my water
with a high PH and high alkalinity, they will often die. They gasp
at the surface before dying. Sometimes it takes a few days for them
to die. Whether it's the PH difference or other things in the water
I have no idea......

Holy **** wher do I begin to unravel these distorted half truths
and heresay?

I said I *THOUGHT* it was Max.

1) It was Me, not Max, referrng to JJ. Scheels documentation
on this subject in "Rivulins of the Old World".

2) He asserted pH doesn't matter. Going from soft to hard water
doesn't matter.

I thought I said above: "...and not the PH itself that kills them."

3) Going from hard to soft water matters. Fish cannot endure a chnage
of more than 50% differnce when going from water than is "softer";
that is, less dissolved solids.

I have the opposite problem and it *IS* a problem because I will lose fish
unless I acclimate them for several hours. Acclimate them from the store
water that averages around 6.8 to 7.2 to my water which can be as high as
8.2 at times with a hardness well under my usual 300.

4) Gasping at the surface is a sign of ammonia poisoning through
"old tank syndrome".

I know that but there is NO AMMONIA in my tanks. There are also too many
large water changes for any "old tank syndrome" problems. I can't get
fish to go from the lower PH and softer water of the LFSs to my hard
alkaline water without acclimating them for several hours. Ammonia is not
an issue. If I just put them in my tanks I loose too many over the first
week or so. No other fish *GASP* but the new ones. Do you think I enjoy
acclimating them for hours if I could just dump them into my Q tank? The
Q tank gets the same constant water changes the other tanks do because
elderly platys and snails keep the cycle going.

Ammonia is very very toxic in neutral or
alkaline water, but harmless in acid water.

I repeat, there is no ammonia or nitrite in my tanks. My water is very
hard and very alkaline. The store waters are soft and around neutral if
not slightly acid.

Old tanks, over time
become acidic; when fresh water is added the pH goes up and
all that ammonia becomes very toxic very quickly. Fish
excrete ammonia through their gills and when they can not
because theres too much ammonia in the water, they gasp at
the surface and often die.

Please stop guessing.

No offense intended but please stop assuming you know the conditions of my
water and the water of my LFSs. Do you actually think I would see fish
gasping and not start doing some ammonia and nitrite tests? They never
do this gasping after several hours of acclimation.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


I think the situation (forgeries, trolls, troll-targets & troll-followers)
are getting on our nerves. Let's get back to aquaria and let this thread
end )

May it rest in peace. (Please?)

-- Mister Gardener