bo0ger1 wrote:
You were implying it. If my word doesn't mean anything to you than why
are you responding to me?

Because I have nothing better to do. And no I wasn't implying it. It
would just help if we could all see your particular setup. I mean you
can't honestly believe that every person in every situation needs no water
changes. Someone with an under-gravel filter for instance has no possible
way to get rid of nitrates other than water changes. But you blindly say,
no water changes.


Ok, let me clarify. With adequate skimming there is no need to do a water
change.

What is adequate skimming? Just a protein skimmer is all you need...no
live rock...a skimmer takes out all nitrates?



I can assure you that I do not keep an aquarium with dead animals
floating around. Why would anyone do that?

I don't know why people do what they do. My point is, do you have
sensitive invertibrates, such as coral and anemones, or just fish and
rock?


I have fish an anenome (doing fine) and live rock.

How do you know it's fine....did it tell you? Are you an LSD user?



It's been tauted time and time again that fish are far hardier than other
reef creatures, and do not need water changes. Nobody at all disputes
this. Some dude came on here and said that for 2 years his wife did
nothing with the tank apart from top-offs, and he didn't lose any fish.
No surprise.


I have read marine books that state that water changes are necessary even
for FOWLR tanks. They are wrong.


Necessary, no, but some form of nitrate export is needed.


This is called FOLLOWING the HERD. Follow away!

Ya, I follow the herd on lots of things. Like I eat 3 meals a day. I
also sleep every night. Turns out I also obey most of the laws set forth
in the books.

You are too funny! Laws set forth in books? If I write a book (hey I even
have a Ph.D.) on marine aquariums, does that make what I state laws?


I was speaking of laws, like don't kill people etc. Not referring to
aquarium laws. Wow they give out Ph.D.'s like candy on Halloween huh?


You're such a rebel for not changing your water, I might compare you to
Fonzie.


I might compare you to a few bovine I have seen.

I would too, but mainly because I'm obese though.



I have a lot more than my word. I have a healthy aquarium. YOU have
nothing more than my word.

You're right, you have everything. I have no more than your word. Turns
out I only care about myself so that's what's important to me.


Great! You want to perform water changes because that makes you happy.
Why do you feel the need to put down those that have realized it isn't
necessary?


Not putting you down because of your not changing water, putting you
down because you blindly state, don't change your water. Which to some
may mean put salt water in a box and put fish in, no need for anything
other than a skimmer, make sure it's an adequate one. Sure throw a
coral in there. Anemone. Sure...now let them stew in their own excrement.


Really? Everyone that writes a book on marine aquariums is the best in
their field? Do you REALLY believe this?

You're right that's what I said, oh sh*t, no it's not. I said that they
have written books and are highly touted. Many, many people have read and
followed their advice and had successful aquariums.


Nope you said "But when marine biologists highly touted as the best in a
particular field write books. "
Are all marine biologists that write books highly touted? How do you know
the difference?

I know the difference because they sell many books, are reviewed highly
and people follow their advice with great success. You, Dr. are spewing
things as fact that you have no concept of. Have you done a study of
life expectancy of fish who live without water changes vs. those that
get changed? Or do you just assume because your fish are alive that
they are healthy.


Many people have NOT followed their advice and ALSO have had successful
marine aquariums so what's your point?

Reef aquariums? None of you fools have stated to have coral. You claim
to have a healthy anemone. But for whatever reason, you won't share
pictures, or show your setup, you blindly say don't change your water.
Well Dr. that makes you an irresponsible jerk.



If you can point me to one book(actually published and sold somewhere,
not the internet, where any goofball can write a page) anywhere that says
it's cool not to change your water ever, I'd greatly appreciate it.


I said it's cool not to change your water? Oh wait, no I didn't. I am
saying its is NOT necessary.

Meaning it's ok...which is the way I was using cool. Point me to 1
single publication that says "It's not necessary to change your water".


AND again DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.

So how do I determine whether to believe you. The books I read had
pictures. You don't.



Or when zoos and aquariums do water changes, I figure it best to believe
them instead of a person whom I know nothing more than being a troll on a
newsgroup.

Note you didn't respond to this. An aquarium with huge volumes of water
at a zoo or what have you. I'm sure it's incredibly expensive to change
the water that they do. Why do they do it, if it's unnecessary.


Probably for the same reason you do it.

Which is, to follow the herd. That makes a lot of sense for an
organization that has nowhere near the amount of money they need any
damned way.



Seriously, if you have more knowledge on the subject than every marine
biologist at every zoo, than I'm truly impressed. Oh, they're probably
just blindly following the herd.


I know nothing about maintaining aquariums at a zoo and never claimed I did.
We are talking about home scale marine aquariums.

Why is that different than a zoo, you'd think there'd be less need to
change the water there, more volume, more stable...etc. Where did you
get your knowledge on home aquariums. Personal research, you just got
lazy and stopped doing water changes so you now decided for the world
that it's not necessary.



I'm a troll because I don't do water changes?

No, you're a troll because you're a jerk, as illustrated in your many
other posts.


I'm a troll because I'm a jerk? Why don't you just call me Hitler and get
it over with.

Ok, Hitler, hail.


Am I wrong because I'm a jerk?

You're wrong because, apart from your word, you provide no evidence that
your theory holds water(notice the cute pun, damn I'm witty).
Additionally you take your theory and extend it to animals that you have
no experience keeping. So what if you are wrong, what if corals need
water changes. Is it possible? Please prove to me that they don't. If
your reply is, I never mentioned corals. Then you should get out of the
REEFs newsgroup and post in the fish only one.



In what way? Do they smile more?

Yep, they do, actually they seem more active and cheerful.


Are you an LSD user?

Not currently. Why, got some?



No thanks. I don't believe in just blindly following the herd.

Sure you do, just not on this issue.


On what issue do I hollow the herd? Because I sleep at night? or eat food?
This is not following the herd Pat.

Sure it is. Or you ever take a quick peek at a TV show because it's
pretty popular. Ever read a movie review to see what people are saying
about them. Ever read a customer review before buying something online.
Ever not stolen stuff from a store because the herd decided you shouldn't.



$1000's in supplements? Where do you shop? Waynes?

What elements? How much of each?


Read the label on the trace elements bottle you purchase.

Which of the millions of available bottles do I purchase




What do you put in for your corals?


I don't have coral. Never claimed to.

What do you put in for your anemone?




And how the hell much do you pay for salt and water. I know that a bucket
of salt costs me between $35 and $50 and lasts plenty long I haven't
calculated how much the water costs, but I'm guessing it's less than one
shower or bath costs. Taking water out is not difficult and putting it
back in is easier, so expensive and difficult do not compute.


I NEVER said water changes are difficult. Read this VERY slowly : My
point is water changes are NOT NECESSARY.

You said adding supplements is easier, I don't think it is. Too
complicated to figure out what needs what...etc. You did however say
that it's expensive to change water. And you say not necessary as long
as you have an adequate skimmer. Nothing else.