Ok, let me clarify. With adequate skimming there is no need to do a
water change.

What is adequate skimming? Just a protein skimmer is all you need...no
live rock

Using a skimmer that produces a consistently good foam. And of course live
rock. Should I also state you need water?

...a skimmer takes out all nitrates?

A skimmer takes out NO nitrates. I am not sure you are ready for where this
would take us in the discussion.

I have fish an anenome (doing fine) and live rock.

How do you know it's fine....did it tell you? Are you an LSD user?

He is growing and 'looks' healthy. And eats when I feed him.

I have read marine books that state that water changes are necessary even
for FOWLR tanks. They are wrong.


Necessary, no, but some form of nitrate export is needed.

Yes it's called denitrification. It doesn't require water changes nor does
it require a skimmer. (You don't want to go there, you're not ready)

You are too funny! Laws set forth in books? If I write a book (hey I
even have a Ph.D.) on marine aquariums, does that make what I state laws?


I was speaking of laws, like don't kill people etc. Not referring to
aquarium laws. Wow they give out Ph.D.'s like candy on Halloween huh?

This is called an ad hominem attack. You're getting good at these!

Great! You want to perform water changes because that makes you happy.
Why do you feel the need to put down those that have realized it isn't
necessary?


Not putting you down because of your not changing water, putting you down
because you blindly state, don't change your water. Which to some may
mean put salt water in a box and put fish in, no need for anything other
than a skimmer, make sure it's an adequate one. Sure throw a coral in
there. Anemone. Sure...now let them stew in their own excrement.

You are putting words in my mouth. I never stated "put salt water in a box
and put fish in, no need for anything other than a skimmer"

You must claim that all you need to do is put salt water in a box and put
fish in, no need for anything other than performing water changes.

I stated with adequate skimming and live rock no need to do water changes.

Nope you said "But when marine biologists highly touted as the best in a
particular field write books. "
Are all marine biologists that write books highly touted? How do you
know the difference?

I know the difference because they sell many books, are reviewed highly
and people follow their advice with great success.

You are missing my point. People also DO NOT follow their advice and have
great success. What is your point?

You, Dr. are spewing things as fact that you have no concept of. Have you
done a study of life expectancy of fish who live without water changes vs.
those that get changed?

Have you? If you haven't than you can not claim they require it. My fish
and anenome are doing fine (close to two years with no water change).

Or do you just assume because your fish are alive that they are healthy.

No. I assume they are healthy because they are alive AND look healthy AND
are disease free. They also eat when I feed them (one indication of heath
for an animal).

Many people have NOT followed their advice and ALSO have had successful
marine aquariums so what's your point?

Reef aquariums? None of you fools have stated to have coral.

Why the need to call me a fool? This is another ad hominem attack. You are
an expert at this.

You claim to have a healthy anemone. But for whatever reason, you won't
share pictures, or show your setup, you blindly say don't change your
water.

I don't blindly say it, I just say it.

Again, what is a picture going to tell you? You seem to have a real blind
spot here.

Well Dr. that makes you an irresponsible jerk.

Ad hominem attack.

I said it's cool not to change your water? Oh wait, no I didn't. I am
saying its is NOT necessary.

Meaning it's ok...which is the way I was using cool. Point me to 1 single
publication that says "It's not necessary to change your water".

Haven't seen one. I'm not saying they don't exist. I am speaking from
experience. I already told you that the books I have read recommend water
changes.

AND again DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.

So how do I determine whether to believe you. The books I read had
pictures. You don't.

You don't have to believe me Pat. And I don't care if you do.

Probably for the same reason you do it.

Which is, to follow the herd. That makes a lot of sense for an
organization that has nowhere near the amount of money they need any
damned way.

Yep.

I know nothing about maintaining aquariums at a zoo and never claimed I
did. We are talking about home scale marine aquariums.

Why is that different than a zoo, you'd think there'd be less need to
change the water there, more volume, more stable...etc.

They have MORE water volume, therefore they have MORE water volume to skim.
They might also be over stocking their aquariums. More fish/aquarium = more
interest from visitors = more money. Not sure people would enjoy a poorly
stocked aquarium at a zoo.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges by bringing up zoo aquariums.

Where did you get your knowledge on home aquariums. Personal research,
you just got lazy and stopped doing water changes so you now decided for
the world that it's not necessary.

Yeah, that's it. I'm lazy. I'm also smart enough to know that water
changes are NOT necessary.

I'm a troll because I'm a jerk? Why don't you just call me Hitler and
get it over with.

Ok, Hitler, hail.


Am I wrong because I'm a jerk?

You're wrong because, apart from your word, you provide no evidence that
your theory holds water(notice the cute pun, damn I'm witty).

You're correct here.

Additionally you take your theory and extend it to animals that you have
no experience keeping. So what if you are wrong, what if corals need
water changes. Is it possible? Please prove to me that they don't.

Prove to me that they do.

If your reply is, I never mentioned corals. Then you should get out of
the REEFs newsgroup and post in the fish only one

Are you an LSD user?

Not currently. Why, got some?

No, because you sound like you are hallucinating.

On what issue do I hollow the herd? Because I sleep at night? or eat
food? This is not following the herd Pat.

Sure it is. Or you ever take a quick peek at a TV show because it's
pretty popular. Ever read a movie review to see what people are saying
about them. Ever read a customer review before buying something online.
Ever not stolen stuff from a store because the herd decided you shouldn't.

Hey, if you want to do water changes because "everyone else" is doing them.
Have at it.

Read the label on the trace elements bottle you purchase.

Which of the millions of available bottles do I purchase

Follow the herd. See what they use. You are good at this.

I don't have coral. Never claimed to.

What do you put in for your anemone?

??

I NEVER said water changes are difficult. Read this VERY slowly : My
point is water changes are NOT NECESSARY.

You said adding supplements is easier, I don't think it is. Too
complicated to figure out what needs what.

Ok, so you are saying you're stupid. Than don't do it. Leave the
supplement adding for the smart people who don't do water changes.

You did however say that it's expensive to change water. And you say not
necessary as long as you have an adequate skimmer. Nothing else.

And live rock.