View Single Post
  #52  
Old November 30th 06, 11:44 PM posted to rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
bo0ger1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Bo0ger1, show me your tank...

Does this qualify as a reef tank now?

Yes, that's a start. But it's now a very new reef tank.

We'd be much more interested a few years from now, and after you've added
some stony corals (acropora, etc.). Those are the ones that appear most
sensitive to "water quality" (whatever that might mean), and that are
rumored
to benefit most from water changes.


In what way do they benefit from water changes?

Your "no water change" strategy will be much more impressive if you can
grow
stony corals over many years.

I don't undestand what the big deal is, here? We all know that a Yellow
Tang places less demand on a tank than a Spanish Hogfish. I'm just
trying
to get a better idea of what sort of bacterial demand your fish place
upon
your NWC system.


Why is this relevant? If you truly understood the nitrogen cycle and
denitrification you wouldn't be asking this question. ANSWER: If my
bioload was in excess of my bacterial metabolic capabilities, wouldn't my
water tests signify this? AGAIN, bacteria fluctuate in population
directly
with their metobolic "food" source. More "food" and they grow in number
(in
general). Why are you having trouble with this?


You've been asked this question many times, and you avoid it each time.

Yes, we know that the bacterial population depends on the availability of
food. And that, as you slowly add bioload, you slowly get more
denitrification ability.

Yes, we know that there's a limit to the amount of bacteria you can grow,
and excess bioload will show up in your various nitrogen tests. Since
yours
are clean, clearly your bioload is below this limit.


Increase your bioload and your bacteria cell count goes up (there is a
ceiling for this, which is why aquariums can be over stocked). Therefore,
my bioload will always be below the limit (within reason, any aquarium can
be over stocked).

But there is STILL the question (which you haven't answered) about what
your
bioload actually is. It's not very impressive to have a couple tiny fish
in
a huge tank, and then claim that "you don't need water changes". We're
much
more interested if you stock your tank as densely as most reef hobbyists,
and
still get good water parameters with no water changes.


Why is this so difficult to understand? My bioload is not relevant! As you
increase your bioload your bacteria proliferate!


Why is this hard for you to understand? An important part of your claim
(that water changes are unnecessary) must surely include the maximum
bioload
that can be sustained with that approach.

Why do you refuse to answer the question of what your bioload actually is?


Because it doesn't matter. Your bacteria will proliferate in response to
increased bioload (within reason, ANY tank can be over stocked).

Want to lower your bacteria cell count even further? Increase the
percentage of water you change. What do you think would happen to your
bacterial cell count if you hypothetically changed ALL of your water with
every WC?


Not much. The majority of denitrifying bacteria is probably in the rocks
and
sand, not in the open water column. You seem to be suggesting that if you
did
a 100% water change, you'd eliminate all the helpful bacteria,


No! You are not understanding what is going on at the biological level (not
uncommon in this NG).

What do you think will happen to your helpful little bacteria if you removed
the majority of there food with each water change? Do you think they will:

A) Starve and start to dye off. Cell count drops
B) Continue to be happy.


and it would be
like a brand new tank that you would have to cycle again from the
beginning
(to grow all the bacteria from scratch).

This is completely false. The bioload capacity of a mature tank is more a
function of the amount of (surface area of) live rock and sand, not so
much
the number of gallons of water.


Agreed.



You can do a 100% water change without greatly affecting the denitrifying
ability of your tank.


False! What do you think will happen to your bacteria if you took away the
majority of there "food: NH3/NH4, NO2-, NO3-" with each water change?


-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
If you make ships in a bottle, I bet the thing that really makes your
heart
sink is when you look in, and there at the wheel is Captain Termite.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey