On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:40:56 GMT, "Justin Boucher"
wrote:

One possible sign of high nitrite levels could be fish gasping for air at
the water surface. Nitrite inhibits the gills ability to collect oxygen.
Even though enough oxygen may be present in the tank. The large amount of
waste you got from the LFS may have simply been just that. Waste that has
not properly decomposed and was really just starting. This would mean that
you may have added a huge amount of ammonia to your tank and a nitrite spike
quickly followed. The nitrite spike for a cycling tank is typically shorter
than the ammonia climb and fall. I've had it where ammonia took 6 weeks to
rise and fall but nitrite took just over one week.

It is strange that the fish would be dying slowly over time. I recently
went through an episode where ick wiped out my sal****er tank fish. I had
one fish die each day. Total time from apparent health to death was
anywhere from 30 to 15 hours. But only one fish at a time. It sounds
unusual for ick to do this, but I couldn't find any other causes and the
fish did develop ick spots rapidly throughout that time frame. Perhaps there
was just too much of the parasite that managed to grow in the tank.

If you're aireating your tank with airstones or bubblers, the oxygen test
kit may not help that much. The air pump and bubbles will help maintain a
good gas mixture. You indicated that you had live plants and I just assumed
that you weren't using air pumps or stones. They remove CO2 real well and
the plants use that to grow and flourish. I turned off the venturi valves
on my tanks when I added live plants and once the plants were established, I
don't need to concern myself with them much anymore except the regular
trimming. Plus the fish are much happier with real plants than with plastic
ones.

I'm not familiar with any disease or parasite that could produce the results
you're speaking about. I told you about my sal****er ick episode, but
typically a disease will show some types of symptoms. I do know that feeder
goldfish are possibly the dirtiest fish you get. They aren't cared for much
at all (they're cheap) and always severely overstocked. Honestly, I
wouldn't even use them as feeders. You could easily bring whatever they
have and give it to your prized Oscar or other predatory fish.

Justin
PS: How I fixed the sal****er ick: No fish, 85 degrees, UV sterilizer on
full blast, 3 weeks. Tested the waters with cheap damsels and everything
was fine. Now back to restocking my Butterflies and Angels.

"Hummer" wrote in message
. com...
Thanks for the info Justin,

I have yet to test the Nitrite levels in the tank. The water I
procured from the pet-store consisted of a large quantity of the
decomposing waste etc.. found at the bottom of their tank. I
specifically asked for this as, I knew (or hoped) it would contain the
'bacterial mix' needed to jump-start the cycle in my tank.

I will take your advice and pick up a nitrite test kit... There are
so many variables that could affect this. It seems strange that the
fish should be dying so slowly one at a time. I would assume if there
was a water problem that all fish would have probably perished within
the first couple of days.

As for the Oxygen, the undergravel filter contains two Aquafiz
bubblers hooked up to an air pump, which runs for around 16 hours a
day. I'll see if I can hold of an oxygen test kit -- I assume the pet
store would carry this?

My primary concern is that they may be deseased or have some parasite.
Do you know if this is very common in feeder fish purchased from pet
stores? Would there be tell-tale signs other than just the 'belly up'
outcome displayed (ie. lesions or markings)




"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
.. .
What were the results of all those tests you have? You said ammonia was
low
but never mentioned nitrite. I would like to say that just using old
tank
water from an established tank wouldn't do the trick for a quick cycle.
You
need the bacteria and that stuff is in the filter or gravel. There
isn't
enough of it in the water column to amount much to anything.

With that in mind, your tank may still be cycling. Are you doing
anything
about oxygen? Live plants will provide oxygen to a tank but they also
consume it at night. A moderate to highly stocked tank with some live
plants could easily dip down to deadly low oxygen levels by morning.
After
the lights come back on, it could take hours before the oxygen level
gets
anywhere near the fish need to survive.

I would test your water again and take specific reading for ammonia,
nitrite
and pH. If you have access to an oxygen test kit and suspect the oxygen
levels after what I had said, I would test that as well. Keep in mind
that
oxygen levels will be at their lowest in the morning before the plants
get
any light to start the new day.

Also, check the amount and kind of lighting you have for your plants.
Insufficient lighting would not allow them to produce well and that
could
mean a downward spiral for your oxygen levels with more fish breathing
than
the plants can produce.

Justin



I have not seen ich kill, but then weakened fish are apt to get ich.
New fish in uncycled tank may be picking up the ich introduced with
the fish store water. The fish maybe were weak to begin with and too
many introduced to the uncycled tank. I have never had gold fish nor
have I added material from foreign tank other than plants and fish. I
have to order everything over the internet, so the fish arrive in some
kind of treated water. I don't think I would ever take material from
a fish store tank as they are exposed to other unknown sources. I
have cycled 5 tanks in the last two years and did it the old fashion
way, a few hardy fish, a few plants, limited feeding and time. I
aireate all my tanks.

dick

dick