Can't we all agree that antibiotics "cause" the conditions that allow
naturally resistant bacteria to proliferate to a degree where mutation into
an even more resistant strain is more likely simply because the other
bacteria are no longer around to compete with the superbugs therby allowing
the superbugs to exchange genes more frequently leading to homozygocity of
the resistance genes and the possibility of faster evolution to a really
nasty bug through the natural mutation of these homozygous superbugs? So in
a sense, the natural selection process not only leads to natural superbugs
but "causes" the conditions for these natural superbugs to evolve into even
stronger strains. I think you are both saying basically the same thing but
the average person is not going to understand the nuance of your arguments
and the average person has a much easier time understanding that antibiotics
"cause" superbugs even though this is not factually accurate.



From:
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:02:06 GMT
Subject: salt

look... this is my field and I teach this ****. I am tired of people saying
that
antibiotics "cause" superbugs. they dont. the superbugs are THERE ALL THE
TIME.
to find resistant bugs all you have to do is do a water extraction of dirt and
plate
that out onto agar and drop antibiotic disks onto the plate. there are
bacteria
resistant to all the antibiotics. Most of the resistant bacteria are "free
range"
and dont normally infect humans.
every time a person gets infected the bacteria replicates and is mutating
NATURALLY
and no antibiotic or anti viral medication on earth is going to kill 100% of
all the
bugs unless the medicine is used in such high concentration that it kills the
host
too.
antibiotics and salt can only increase the population of superbugs by
selection, but
cannot "create" them. most of the time the superbugs are the result of
exchange of
DNA between different species of bacteria.

I am not aware of anyone with data on why SUB therapeutic levels of
antibiotics
results in weight gain. It is just a well known fact. sorta like aspirin and
quinine was used for thousands of years without knowing the mechanism of
action.

the use of antibiotics does not CAUSE antibiotic resistance, it can only
increase the
population of resistant bacteria in a person. So a person that doesnt take
the full
course of antibiotics may allow resistant bacteria to escape OR pass on
resistant
genes to other bacteria in the gut and from the gut shed into the environment.
However, resistance genes can pass to other bacteria whether or not people are
taking
the antibiotics properly. we now have strains of bacteria popping up that are
resistant to even the "last ditch" antibiotics and these antibiotics are NOT
passed
out like candy but use monitored extremely closely. No abuse but the
resistant
strains are there anyway.

antibiotics used in sub therapeutics doses are not the ones used for
therapeutic
doses anymore.
Ingrid

Derek Broughton wrote:
It's pure sophistry when you claim that salt doesn't create superbugs
because it isn't mutagenic. Another description is "straw-man" argument,
since I never suggested it _was_ mutagenic. Now if you want to argue that
the science behind the allegations that use of salt is creating
salt-resistant bugs is faulty, go right ahead. You could be right, but I
still haven't seen enough good science to convince me that I (or my fish)
will benefit from constant use of salt.


And just what scientific principle explains how they put on weight if it is
_not_ therapeutic? Anyway, sub-therapeutic treatment (regardless of
whether poverty is also a vital component and, remember, South African
President Mbeke nearly got crucified for saying the same of AIDS) is a
proven cause of antibiotic resistance.



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