"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"george" wrote in message
news:ysKvd.186848$5K2.24832@attbi_s03...

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
george wrote:

Take a comarative anatomy class. Fish have very few pain receptors,
and do not have the peripheral or central nervous system to
experience what we would experience as pain.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with work done at the Roslin Institute in
Scotland last year that demonstrated fish have a neurological response
that is remarkably similar to the pain response in humans.


Yes I am familiar with their work, and it has some major flaws. To quote
from
their web site:

"They carried out two types of experiment. In the first they anaesthetised
trout
and used fine electrodes and sensitive recording equipment to capture the
electrical signals that were passing from the lips to the brain. When bee
venom
was placed on the fish's lips, the pattern of the electrical recordings
was
typical of those from pain receptors in humans, strongly suggesting that
the
lips of fish also contain pain receptors. Bee venom was used as a
convenient
experimental test noxious stimulus.

The second set of experiments was conducted on free swimming, hungry
trout. When
food was provided the fish rapidly ate it up. If bee venom was applied to
their
lips beforehand, the fish failed to eat the food and showed behaviours
indicative of discomfort. These behaviours provided further evidence that
the
fish found the venom painful."


Now, read the article at the link below, and see if you can figure out
where the
Roslin institute went wrong with their experiment.

http://www.cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm


After you've read it, come back, and we'll discuss some more about why the
Roslin experiments are so flawed.
snip

Oh yes, we get more and more Troll like with each post...now you want us to
do research to prove your point.

I eagerly await the name calling that usually follows in a thread like this.

BV.


BV, please understand, you guys called me to task on the issue. I've provided
the information to back up what I've said. I can provide more, if you like.
You responded earlier to it, and I responded back with answers. I would have
thought that since you are raising fish, that you would be more interested in
learning how they are actually put together, and how the parts all work
together. It certainly makes for a more enlightened pet owner. Hence my
earlier frustration. Having said all of that, it's my turn to ask you to
provide the evidence for your belief that fish experience pain and suffering,
and exactly how they are able to do it. You expect me to see it your way, but I
require objective proof, the same kind of proof that you expected of me. It's
only fair.