On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:26:58 GMT, "george"
wrote:


"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"george" wrote in message
news:8Ggwd.270267$R05.30763@attbi_s53...

"rtk" wrote in message
...
The subject is a sick fish lying on the kitchen counter, gasping and
contorting and appearing to even the youngest child to be uncomfortable.

To you, maybe. I would never put a fish that was that alive in that
situation.
The subject is a fish that is so sick that it can't swim, and just floats
on
it's side and is incapable of fleeing when you put your hand around it.

You look at the fish and you think of how the National Academies defines
pain,
what the researches at such and such institution have printed in 1000
words or
more about the nervous systems of fish, about the relative tolerance for
acute
and chronic discomfort of the human animal, especially when closely
related,
to the small fish on the counter, and then you discuss these matters at
length
on a couple newsgroups.

Meanwhile the little fish continues what you theorize is its
non-miserable
gasping and contortions.

Is there something wrong with this picture? Am I detecting a peculiar
lack of
spontaneous response to a creature in need? Can we say *empathy?*

Ruth Kazez


Yes, there is something wrong with this picture. What is wrong is that
you've
placed a sick fish that might be savable on a kitchen counter. See above.
You
can have empathy for an animal and still put it down. We do it for
horses. We
can certainly do it for a goldfish.


Now I am really confused...George, haven't you been arguein that you would
put a sick fish on the ground and let it gasp for breath until dead?

BV.


A dying fish, BV. A dying fish. If it is just sick, why would I put it down if
I can do something to make it well? Ruth's statement was "The subject is a sick
fish lying on the kitchen counter, gasping and contorting and appearing to even
the youngest child to be uncomfortable." That has nothing to do with what we
are talking about. We are talking about a fish that is so sick that there is no
hope for it to recover. In other words, it would be on it's last leg. My
experience with treating fish is that those who aren't able to flop around and
contort "on the counter", as she puts it, are too sick to recover. Obviously if
a fish is able to do so, it may have enough energy left to be saved, and I would
do all I can to save it. If it is floating on it's side and is unable to swim
away or make any effort to do so when you try to catch it, obviously it is too
far gone to practically do anything for it. At that point, is is probably
already gasping even while still in the water.

FFS I think that everybody now has formed their own opinions about how
to treat an obviously dying organism. No matter what the species is,
if it's life has to be brought to an end, it's blatently obvious that
this act should be performed in as quick and painless a method as
possible. Please don't use the "anthy" word again as it seems not many
of the posters to this thread are fully aware of it's true definition.
Just coat the bugger in breadcrumbs and get it into the Deep Fat Fryer
as soon as possible.

YP

Howard
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/otters/Fish.htm