yet another with a fast kill file finger! The only requirement to get
killl filed is dissagree with the so called self professed pond gods /
goddesses. There is no discussion of things in these forums, its all
one sided Windsong, remember that, dissagree and you get rapped hard
and kill filed............



On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:42:59 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

===
==="Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
=== In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
=== "Cichlidiot" wrote in message
=== ...
=== Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
=== designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
=== fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
=== design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
=== long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.
===
=== To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
=== today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject.
===
===## Oh really? You're wrong. Do you always get so easily upset when someone
===questions you?
===
===I will make
=== this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
=== "if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.
===
===## Ok, if we win the lottery or came into a large inheritance we can have
===the experts come in and build your dream pond in our front yard.. After all
===not everyone has an extra $10,000+ to spend on ponds as you seem to think
===they do. Any such suggestions from you that they do will be summarily
===ignored. )
===
=== The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
=== of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
=== and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
=== I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing).
===
===## Then why suggest this to a private pond owner? Not expensive for me?
===Where would I get *donations* from? I would have to pay someone to come in
===and redo the whole thing.
===
===I was
=== not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
=== more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
=== some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
=== long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.
===
===## And how much do they charge for your standard 2000 to 3000 gallon pond
===and waterfall where you live? What did the liners alone cost? ONLY 15 to
===20' stream? That "stream" liner marterial is another several hundred
===dollars at least.
===
=== The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,
===
===## Here again - where would we find all these volunteers? Paying for what
===you suggest would easily run around $8,000 to $10,000 or more where we live.
===The water pump alone for such a setup would be well into the $500 range.
===And you call me argumentative? LOL!!! Not everyone on this list has that
===kind of money.
===
=== but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
=== think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
=== where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
=== the area when designing the pond.
===
===## Since I had never seen water snakes, bullfrogs, King Fishers or herons
===closely (where we live) we never gave them a thought. We started before I
===got online so all we had to go by were books.
===
=== $$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry
===or
=== small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of
===the
=== pond itself?
===
=== What stream?
===
===## The one you claimed was 15 to 20 feet long and full of fish for the
===herons.
===
===The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
=== the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
=== to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
=== main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream.
===
===## Yes dear I am keeping up. You mentioned a stream, now you mention
===waterfall pools. You're talking about a HUGE expensive system, not what
===most people have in their yards.
===
===Nothing
=== restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
=== found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
=== unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream.
===
===## So they passed through the impeller without harm? Must be a new type of
===pump.
===
=== $$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe
===you
=== managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
=== pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
=== mosquito fish?
===
=== The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
=== mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
=== into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
=== movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
=== of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
=== and pond.
===
===## I see, so the water pump would suck them in and spit them back at the end
===of the 15 to 20 foot stream that also fed waterfalls and pools.
===
=== $$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
===who
=== don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
=== huge streams?
===
=== My, we are repetitive aren't we.
===
===## My but you keep refusing to answer the question until now. I've seen
===many ponds with streams in the past 9 years and never saw any of the fish go
===UP the streams. They stayed in the pond itself whether there was a
===waterfall or not.
===
===This sort of language would get you
=== branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
=== newsgroup I visit.
===
===## I couldn't care less about your other NGs since I am here. It's obvious
===you think everyone has unlimited income to hire professionals to put in
===ponds with 20' streams, special water pumps that do not harm fish,
===waterfalls with pools, and then load them with mosquito fish to attract
===herons away from their koi and GF. Would be nice if we all could afford
===such a luxuries.... )
===
===For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
=== mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.
===
===## Killfile me! )


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS