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Old January 27th 05, 06:37 PM
Michael Johnson, PE
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WraithCobra wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>>WraithCobra wrote:
>>
>>>Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"WraithCobra" > wrote in
:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Um... The '03 & '04 Terminator Cobra's are already faster and have
>>>>>near Corvette handling when compared with the same year. The
>>>>>Terminator Cobras are putting more power to the ground than the
>>>>>same year Z06's and the new C6.
>>>>
>>>>Mike, you're dreaming. The Corvette does 0-60 in under 4 seconds
>>>>off the showroom floor. What stock Cobra does that?
>>>
>>>
>>>Time slips have already proven that the Terminator is faster than
>>>the same year Vette (not Z06) in the 1/4.
>>>The Terminators put down an average of 365 horses to the ground show
>>>room stock, closer to 385 with only a CAI and cat-back. The C5 has a
>>>RWHP around 300, and the Z06 about 350.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>The next Cobra, which will be produced,
>>>>>will have more power than the new C6 (the Terminator already does)
>>>>
>>>>Flat out nonsense. The next Cobra is nothing but a rumor. And the
>>>>Terminator has 390/390 vs. the C6's 400/400. Those are facts.
>>>
>>>
>>>The Terminator is under rated, that's a fact! The factory numbers
>>>are closer to 425/425, thats without a CAI and cat-back. The only
>>>thing holding the Cobra back is weight, 3650 lbs. The Terminator
>>>puts down over 15 more RWHP stock than the C5 Z06 (dyno proven) and
>>>is only a few 10ths behind in the 1/4.
>>>Here's some facts for you......
>>>http://dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=28
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and will handle just as well on the new platform for less. I'm not
>>>>>comparing the next Cobra to the C6 Z06, they are in a different
>>>>>price range. And I do agree that they are two different cars for
>>>>>two different purposes. Heck, the Vette guys think the new Z06 will
>>>>>compare to the GT. Don't think so... ---
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe
>>>>>---
>>>>
>>>>Mike, you need to wake up.
>>>
>>>
>>>You need to stop Magazing racing becuse in the real world the '03 &
>>>'04 Cobras are faster than a C5 Vette and handle almost as well for
>>>thousands less.

>>
>>I agree that the '03-'04 Cobras can match, and in some instances beat,
>>the C5 Vettes at the drag strip but that is where it ends. A C5 will
>>tromp a Mustang Cobra on a road course.

>
>
> A stock Cobra will easily out run a stock C5 Corvette in the 1/4, the Z06 is
> only a half second faster. The Cobra also handles better than most people
> think. On a loose road course the Cobra would have no problem keeping up
> with a C5, a tighter course with more transitions will slow the Cobra down
> due to its weight distribution.


I wouldn't say the Cobra, stock vs. stock, would easily outrun a C5 in
the 1/4 mile. The Vette has better traction and a weight advantage
thats good for the equivalent of 40-50 hp. Where the Cobra shines is
when the engine are done but this is the case with most forced induction
engines.

>>The new C6 Vette is even
>>better and stock for stock will likely match the Cobra at the strip
>>and would destroy it otherwise. I like Mustangs but putting one up
>>against a C5, and especially a C6, will lead to a big disappointment.

>
>
> I'm not really comparing the Current Cobra with the C6, I just stated that
> the Cobra puts more power to the ground to make my point about the base C5.


Aside from the engine changes the C6 isn't that far off from a C5 in
handling. In fact, the C6 isn't a new chassis but a tweaked version of
the C5. While power to the ground is important that is just one
component that makes for a good all around performance car.

>>BTW, the upcoming Z06 is going to be one nasty sports car. My guess
>>is it will handily trounce about every sports car selling for under
>>$100k and give the Ford GT a good scare stock for stock.

>
>
> Why is it that the C6 Z06 rumors are so believable (have it running with the
> GT, which I don't believe) and the Cobra rumors are way off base (that it
> will out run and handle as well as a base C6)?


I don't know what the new Cobra will be but I suspect it will have the
same drive train as the '03-'04 cars. IMO, that is one of the best, if
not the best, engine ever put in a mass produced automobile. Why mess
with success? I think Ford will probably tweak it to make a little more
than 400 hp.

> The current Cobra already out run's the current C5, there is no question
> about that. The current Cobra is the fastest Mustang ever sold to the public
> and the second best handling Mustang ever sold to the public, with the '00
> Cobra R being the first. So why is it so hard to believe that the new Cobra
> built on the new platform will not again be faster than the current C6
> Corvette and handle close to if not as well as it does? I know the new
> platform will still have some weight problems, but that's not as detrimental
> to handling as other factors that have been corrected from the old chassis.


The problem the Mustang has when put up against the Vette is a result of
the intended use of each car. The Mustang is meant to be a daily driver
that is affordable. This results in driving positions, car's center of
gravity location etc. that is not optimized for all out performance.
The chassis is a derivative of a four door sedan which has compromises
from the standpoint of performance. This isn't a bad thing. It's just
what Ford had to do to keep it affordable and functional for its
intended buyers. While the chassis is light years ahead of the old Fox
platform it still has compromises that affect the car's performance. I
think Ford has hit a home run with the new Stang but this doesn't mean
it is a competitor for the Vette.

Now the Vette is a completely different story. It was designed from the
ground up to be a two seater sports car. No major compromises were
necessary during its design. This means independent rear suspensions
that aren't an after thought retrofit, lower center of mass, trannies
located behind the driver to optimize weight distribution, front
suspension that doesn't compromise for engine size (like in the new
Mustang) and many, many other items that enhance performance. All these
things add up to a car that is quite a capable performer even for the
price of $50k. Hell, you can't buy a loaded pickup truck for much less
than that and many SUV's cost more!

> I can't believe that so many people on a Mustang news group put the Corvette
> on such a high pedestal while they kick the Mustang to the curb. Makes no
> sense...


I'm not kicking the Mustang to the curb. I have one sitting in my
garage that I'll keep until I'm taking a dirt nap. That being said, I
also won't take a position of making the Mustang out to be more than
what it is - a very good pony car at a very good price that can be a
daily driver, if necessary. IMO, the new Mustang fills this role almost
to perfection but that's about as far as I will go until I see what Ford
does with the Cobra version. I do know that they can only do so much
with the car (i.e chassis) because of it's basic design function.
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