new gravel bog - question

Hope y'all don't mind, I've posted the same basic content under a couple of
different threads, in hopes of increasing my chanes of getting an answer.
We finally built a gravel bog to filter the pond. We just finished it,
yesterday. It's visibly making a difference, but it has a lot of catch-up
to perform, and of course, we have lots of powdery looking algae trapped on
the surfaces of the gravel. Will it continue to scrub the algae from the
water, even if it has a ton of stuff already trapped, or do I need to do
anything to help it get up to speed, and into the maintenance stage. Can we
leave it alone, and just let the natural "bugs" do their thing over time?
How does the decomposing trapped algae figure into the build up of bacteria?
Is that part of it?

I'm thinking maybe I should
1. add the sludge-eating stuff to break down the trapped algae?
2. put some mesh over the nozzle of our shop vac and suck the initial
overload out?

Which should I do? Some combination of the above?
Any advice would be appreciated.

You need a mechanical filter to trap the suspended algae before it gets
to your bog. I use a rubbermaid container with a snap-on lid. Drill
holes in the sides, place your submersible pump in, and stuff the box
full of polyester quilt batting (cheap, effective, and you can rinse it
with a hose and re-use it). Drill a hole in the lid of the box for
your pump outlet. You may have to clean it every day or two until the
algae is under control. The bog will act as a biological filter, and
the plants in the bog will use up a lot of nutrients that the algae
needs to grow. I like water cress because its so fast growing. Pick
up a bunch or two at the grocery store, poke the stems down into the
gravel and in no time at all it will put out roots and grow like crazy.
You'll see a major difference in your water quality.

Ann in Houston wrote:
Hope y'all don't mind, I've posted the same basic content under a
couple of
different threads, in hopes of increasing my chanes of getting an
answer.
We finally built a gravel bog to filter the pond. We just finished
it,
yesterday. It's visibly making a difference, but it has a lot of
catch-up
to perform, and of course, we have lots of powdery looking algae
trapped on
the surfaces of the gravel. Will it continue to scrub the algae from
the
water, even if it has a ton of stuff already trapped, or do I need to
do
anything to help it get up to speed, and into the maintenance stage.
Can we
leave it alone, and just let the natural "bugs" do their thing over
time?
How does the decomposing trapped algae figure into the build up of
bacteria?
Is that part of it?

I'm thinking maybe I should
1. add the sludge-eating stuff to break down the trapped algae?
2. put some mesh over the nozzle of our shop vac and suck the
initial
overload out?

Which should I do? Some combination of the above?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Deb,
I tend to get a little long in these posts, but I can't bring myself to
just say "no you don't". The gravel is the mechanical filter. One of the
whole purposes of using this kind of filter is to avoid having filter media
to clean more than once a season. My experience with a gravel bog fills
that bill. As far as making a major difference, we are already on our
second day of crystal clear water. The fish are a little spooked, still.
The pond store suggested adding more gravel on top of the water standing on
top of the original gravel bed. I didn't even tell him that the water was
deeper than the gravel. He could just tell by the way my question was
worded. They don't use a separate mechanical filter with the bog on their
display pond and it is crystal clear. I had a gravel bog years ago, and
never had a mechanical filter other than the gravel itself. The pond was
too shallow for out koi, and it sprung a leak, so we pulled it. I was
really happy with it. I just wasn't sure what was the best way to handle
the green residue. My old pond wasn't as green to start with as this one
is. I have already started putting in plants and, of course, I will be
getting some of the starter bacteria stuff to put in it.

You need a mechanical filter to trap the suspended algae before it gets
to your bog. I use a rubbermaid container with a snap-on lid. Drill
holes in the sides, place your submersible pump in, and stuff the box
full of polyester quilt batting (cheap, effective, and you can rinse it
with a hose and re-use it). Drill a hole in the lid of the box for
your pump outlet. You may have to clean it every day or two until the
algae is under control. The bog will act as a biological filter, and
the plants in the bog will use up a lot of nutrients that the algae
needs to grow. I like water cress because its so fast growing. Pick
up a bunch or two at the grocery store, poke the stems down into the
gravel and in no time at all it will put out roots and grow like crazy.
You'll see a major difference in your water quality.

the problem with gravel as a mechanical filter is how do you clean it?
when algae dies it just breaks down putting organic wastes back into the system. the
biofilter needs to handle the wastes, but eventually the nitrates must be dealt with.
only plants and anaerobic bacteria get rid of nitrates., plants use em to build
plant mass, anaerobic bacteria leach toxins back into the water as they get rid of
the nitrates.
when there is a big algae die off the best is to catch it in a filter and remove the
organics from the system. then let the plants in a veggie filter remove the wastes
into plant tissue that is not rotting and going back into the system. Ingrid

The gravel is the mechanical filter. One of the
whole purposes of using this kind of filter is to avoid having filter media
to clean more than once a season.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
the problem with gravel as a mechanical filter is how do you clean it?

I fixed a bottom drain in the back, and I disconnect the pump and just wash
out the gravel from the top with a hose. I just hate to break down a d__n
filter container and remove the pads and wash off the muck, muddying up the
ground in the area and generally making a big mess of things. Also, never,
in nearly ten years of ponding have I had a filter that didn't have to be
cleaned once a week except in the dead of winter. Our pond season here is
from about March to the end of November, and it is nice that way, but it
makes for many, many weeks of filter break-down and mucking out. Where this
bog sits, is on a rock-paved patio with drains right behind the pipe where
the algea will wash out. I get no mud, and there are no gunky pads to wash.
I have been wanting one of these for three or four years and couldn't
convince DH that it would sufficiently filter the pond. The wearing-out of
the canisters gave me the opportunity to push for a change. Then, I got the
literature from Nelson's Water Gardens here in our area to back me up, and
just went out and bought the stuff to do it and forced his hand.

when algae dies it just breaks down putting organic wastes back into the
system. the
biofilter needs to handle the wastes, but eventually the nitrates must be
dealt with.
only plants and anaerobic bacteria get rid of nitrates., plants use em to
build
plant mass, anaerobic bacteria leach toxins back into the water as they
get rid of
the nitrates.

I do have plants in it. I have taro and iris, and I will have some
horsetail and eventually some impatiens and whatever else I can manage. The
algae I was concerned about was just what was removed at first, as the green
water got cleaned out. As soon as we move the fish, find the leak and fix
it, remove a good half of the fish load and add some lilies, I really think
the issue of heavy algea build-up will be moot.

when there is a big algae die off the best is to catch it in a filter and
remove the
organics from the system. then let the plants in a veggie filter remove
the wastes
into plant tissue that is not rotting and going back into the system.
Ingrid

Well, I can see your point about that, and I may be able to rig some kind of
holding tank with plants in it between the bog and the main pond. That
could be very attractive, as well. But, if we avoid a "big algea die-off"
with the reduced fish load and more plants in the pond, will it still be
necessary? It would look very nice, but it will really require some
finagling.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:51:17 GMT, "Ann in Houston" wrote:

I can't bring myself to just say "no you don't".
snip
we are already on our second day of crystal clear water.

I would never have recommended a gravel anything for in the pond or out of
the pond filter, because of the difficulty of cleaning them. The problem
all boils down to dirt & dust that don't break down, as organics do
break-down.... unfortunately as the organics build-up and break down they
use up a pond's buffer and can cause pH crashes... so be diligent about
checking your KH in the coming years and adding baking soda as needed.

As is, I'd say, leave it alone, the green algae on top will break down on
it's own, and once plants fill in, you won't see it. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Jan, this newsreader gets hard for me to follow the responses. Did you see
my explanation to Ingrid about the drain and washing out the gravel from the
top? What do you think of that. There are a lot of ponders down here that
have this set-up, as promoted and taught by our premier pond nursery in the
area. They've had one on their beee-yootiful display pond for about five
years, and I think they clean it at the end of each season. I'm not really
sure. I think I'll ask them.
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:51:17 GMT, "Ann in Houston"
wrote:

I can't bring myself to just say "no you don't".
snip
we are already on our second day of crystal clear water.

I would never have recommended a gravel anything for in the pond or out of
the pond filter, because of the difficulty of cleaning them. The problem
all boils down to dirt & dust that don't break down, as organics do
break-down.... unfortunately as the organics build-up and break down they
use up a pond's buffer and can cause pH crashes... so be diligent about
checking your KH in the coming years and adding baking soda as needed.

As is, I'd say, leave it alone, the green algae on top will break down on
it's own, and once plants fill in, you won't see it. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Ann in Houston wrote:

Jan, this newsreader gets hard for me to follow the responses.

just include the relevant bits, and don't top-post...

Did you
see my explanation to Ingrid about the drain and washing out the gravel
from the
top? What do you think of that. There are a lot of ponders down here
that have this set-up, as promoted and taught by our premier pond nursery
in the
area. They've had one on their beee-yootiful display pond for about five
years, and I think they clean it at the end of each season.

I thought I saw in one of the posts that the water came _up_ through the
gravel, but I can't find it. If so, that helps, because the gravel doesn't
get so compacted as when the water flows _down_ through the gravel, but it
still isn't easy to clean. And if it's a "bog", it presumably has plants.
If it doesn't yet, it will. The problem with gravel and plants is how you
separate the gravel _from_ the plants when you're cleaning. They seem to
take great delight in working their roots around the gravel in such a way
that it is at best tedious to separate them and at worst almost impossible.

So the simplest way to clean the gravel is to dig it all out and then use a
pressure washer to clean it - totally disregarding any plant material.
Then you still have the sludge left behind. If the containment is designed
right, maybe none of it has washed into the pond and you can vacuum it up
with a shop-vac, if not you now have a lot of extra partly composted
biomass in the pond.

Gravel works, but ime most people who used it start to wish they hadn't
after, at most, a couple of seasons.
--
derek

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:52:58 GMT, "Ann in Houston"
wrote:

Jan, this newsreader gets hard for me to follow the responses.

Climbs up on soapbox
That is because you are using Outlook Express and topposting, whereass
some of the users bottom post and some others do not quote and others
do not trim at all.
I switched over to Forte [free version] and feel better now. It can
color the levels of responses so it it easier to follow along.
If someone can't figure out how to post and can't form a coherent
sentence with minimal mispellings, they probably have nothing to share
anyway. This group is not bad, compared to many others.
off soapbox
Love you guys - really.
--
Crashj

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:52:58 GMT, "Ann in Houston" wrote:

Jan, this newsreader gets hard for me to follow the responses. Did you see
my explanation to Ingrid about the drain and washing out the gravel from the
top? What do you think of that.

Today I saw it. )

There are a lot of ponders down here that
have this set-up, as promoted and taught by our premier pond nursery in the
area. They've had one on their beee-yootiful display pond for about five
years, and I think they clean it at the end of each season. I'm not really
sure. I think I'll ask them.

I'd like to hear their answer, I'd also like to know if they check their
KH, and/or do check it and need to add buffer. Do they tear it down/clean
it each year? If you tear a gravel filter down every year, no problem. It
is people who have used (in our area lava rock was the choice) rock and
don't clean them well enough or not at all, that had problems the following
years.

As far as a filter that you had to clean weekly, that would have been due
to an undersized filter. I only clean my bio-filter pads once/year, takes
about 20 minutes per chamber, not counting pumping water out time and shop
vaccing the bottom of the chamber, and one of those chambers runs all year.

If I could do something different to my system though, I'd have a vortex
pre-filter, where the solids fall due to the slow circling of the water and
than one just opens a valve to drain it off periodically. My pre-filter can
go 6 weeks or more without cleaning, and I don't have to touch it when it
is in winter slow circ mode, but when I do clean it, it takes about 45
minutes. One of our club members did a demo of his vortex, and I was sold,
took all of 5 minutes and he did nothing more than open a valve and shut
the valve.... but alas and alack, I definitely alack no money to put one in
anytime soon. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~