About my water tests

I had been having a problem for a couple of months with a white cloud that
just would not go away on it's own. There have been no fish deaths, I have
reduced the feeding and monitored just about everything I could test for
with my water. I have been doing 30% water changes every 2 weeks. BTW, this
is an established system.

Here are the water readings:

PH 8.0
Ammonia ppm 0.0
Nitrite(NO2) ppm 0.0
Nitrate(NO3) ppm 0.0
Total Alkalinity(KH) ppm 120
Total Hardness(GH) ppm 150
Specific gravity 1.004


This is a 30 gal setup with the following occupants:

2 - Rainbow sharks
2 - Tiger Oscars (2.5'' Long)
2 - Kissing Gourami
2 - Convict Chiclids
3 - Chinese Algae Eaters

I have a Whisper 60 (turned down) and good aeration with a bubble wall for
the kids to play too :-)

I guess the questions are, why has this bacteria bloom taken so long to go
away and since I have such hard water, is that and my ph going to be an
issue for these guys for the long term.

Thanks :-)

-James

"James" wrote in message
...
I had been having a problem for a couple of months with a white cloud
that
just would not go away on it's own. There have been no fish deaths, I
have
reduced the feeding and monitored just about everything I could test
for
with my water. I have been doing 30% water changes every 2 weeks. BTW,
this
is an established system.

Here are the water readings:

PH 8.0
Ammonia ppm 0.0
Nitrite(NO2) ppm 0.0
Nitrate(NO3) ppm 0.0
Total Alkalinity(KH) ppm 120
Total Hardness(GH) ppm 150
Specific gravity 1.004


This is a 30 gal setup with the following occupants:

2 - Rainbow sharks
2 - Tiger Oscars (2.5'' Long)
2 - Kissing Gourami
2 - Convict Chiclids
3 - Chinese Algae Eaters

I have a Whisper 60 (turned down) and good aeration with a bubble wall
for
the kids to play too :-)

I guess the questions are, why has this bacteria bloom taken so long to
go
away and since I have such hard water, is that and my ph going to be an
issue for these guys for the long term.

Thanks :-)

-James


I'm not familiar with the Whisper 60, but a persistent bacterial bloom is
typically due to under filtration, or more specifically insufficient
filter media surface for a large enough nitrifying bacteria colony.
Never turn off the filter, avoid replacing the filter media (clean only)
and look into adding another filter if needed.

I suspect your tank size will be a problem before your pH is worth
worrying about ;~).

sharks, 30g might be too small for their territorial tendencies, ymmv
gouramis, research eventual size (10-12")
Convicts, research propendensity to multiply ;~) and hope you have 2
females.
CAEs, research eventual size and evil disposition towards large fish
Oscars, research eventual size (12-14") and filtering requirements
The only thing you are missing is a couple of Pacus ;~) *sorry, couldn't
resist*

Typically, the industry recommendation for ONE Oscar is a 55g, and a 70g
for two Oscars. With your Kissing gouramis, keeping everything in a 70g
would be quite a squeeze once they were adults.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
| "James" wrote in message
| ...

|
| I'm not familiar with the Whisper 60, but a persistent bacterial bloom is
| typically due to under filtration, or more specifically insufficient
| filter media surface for a large enough nitrifying bacteria colony.
| Never turn off the filter, avoid replacing the filter media (clean only)
| and look into adding another filter if needed.

The Whisper 60 has 2x the media area as the 30 does. So.... I agree with you
entirely there. I always clean the media prior to outright replacing it.


|
| I suspect your tank size will be a problem before your pH is worth
| worrying about ;~).

Hah! :-) I figured you'd say that. HOPEFULLY, my 180g will be up and running
prior to any major growth spirts LOL. The Oscars were a gift so I had to
kept 'em.

|
| sharks, 30g might be too small for their territorial tendencies, ymmv
| gouramis, research eventual size (10-12")
| Convicts, research propendensity to multiply ;~) and hope you have 2
| females.
| CAEs, research eventual size and evil disposition towards large fish
| Oscars, research eventual size (12-14") and filtering requirements
| The only thing you are missing is a couple of Pacus ;~) *sorry, couldn't
| resist*
|
| Typically, the industry recommendation for ONE Oscar is a 55g, and a 70g
| for two Oscars. With your Kissing gouramis, keeping everything in a 70g
| would be quite a squeeze once they were adults.

Gonna get real freindly in there huh ;-)

I know the problem is not overfeeding because today I did a gravel clean and
there just was not any consequence of funk caught during the cleaning. I
gues I will give this new filter a couple of weeks. And this time I did a
50% water change and will do another next week I gues to see what's up. The
water looks better so far.

Sad thing, it's seems my water was always better to look at BEFORE I knew
anything about water chemistry... but I know it's better for the fish ;-)

Thanks!

-James

A reading of GH of 150 is not considered hard, over 200 would be. I am
curious as to your KH reading. Also do you currently treat your water,
ie water softner? I am also a bit leary of a NO3 reading of zero. Under
10ppm yes, or even 5ppm, but I have never had a reading of zero, myself.
You mention your water chemistry. Do you add chemicals for PH ect?

With the amount of fish currently in you tank. I would recommend weekly
water changes. Overfeeding, is only one source of extra ammonia in the
water, all fish generate ammonia by gill action, urine and fish waste.
Your whisper 60 rates at 240gph, if memory serves me correct, which is
just a bit weak for your current tank, 300gph would be better.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

I use tap water and distilled water during water changes. I just started
removing all the shells ( small) and a rock that may be raising the KH. My
pH has been high for so long, but the buffer and relative hardness are
issues due to scale buildup. I will use pH down to knock the buffer down and
water softener pillows to help lower the KH.

I got the Whisper 60 to increase the filter surface area ( up from the
30series which used to do OK). Seems to be getting me to where I want to be
as far as clearing the water. I was shooting for the 300gph as you said :-)
With additional aeration, I think I am OK.

I saw the nitrates come up during the last cycle and since they went back
down to next to zero (along with ammonia and nitrites) attribute the nitrate
reading of zero to some carbon in the filter. Once the water clears, the
carbon will be gone FWIW.

Thanks for some terrific input and I will keep all posted! ;-)

-James

I am now doing weekly water changes (up from 2x per month)
"Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
|A reading of GH of 150 is not considered hard, over 200 would be. I am
| curious as to your KH reading. Also do you currently treat your water,
| ie water softner? I am also a bit leary of a NO3 reading of zero. Under
| 10ppm yes, or even 5ppm, but I have never had a reading of zero, myself.
| You mention your water chemistry. Do you add chemicals for PH ect?
|
| With the amount of fish currently in you tank. I would recommend weekly
| water changes. Overfeeding, is only one source of extra ammonia in the
| water, all fish generate ammonia by gill action, urine and fish waste.
| Your whisper 60 rates at 240gph, if memory serves me correct, which is
| just a bit weak for your current tank, 300gph would be better.
|
|
|
| --
| Posted via CichlidFish.com
| http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

Hmmmm.... I just noticed the Whisper is rated for 330gph ( adequate for 30
to 60g tanks) at my LFS. I read somewhere that a flter should turn the
water over 10x the tank capacity. Could be wrong, would not be the 1st time
LOL ;-)

--
James

"Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
A reading of GH of 150 is not considered hard, over 200 would be. I am
curious as to your KH reading. Also do you currently treat your water,
ie water softner? I am also a bit leary of a NO3 reading of zero. Under
10ppm yes, or even 5ppm, but I have never had a reading of zero, myself.
You mention your water chemistry. Do you add chemicals for PH ect?

With the amount of fish currently in you tank. I would recommend weekly
water changes. Overfeeding, is only one source of extra ammonia in the
water, all fish generate ammonia by gill action, urine and fish waste.
Your whisper 60 rates at 240gph, if memory serves me correct, which is
just a bit weak for your current tank, 300gph would be better.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

10x would normally be considered high, but is suitable for certain
applications where there is a high degree of mechanical filtration needed
(strong pickup power), or there are a lot of obstacles in the tank (mbuna
in rockwork). For biological filtration, you do not need high exchanges,
x2-x3 is sufficient. This might help you.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/filters/filters.shtml
--
www.NetMax.tk

"James" wrote in message
news
Hmmmm.... I just noticed the Whisper is rated for 330gph ( adequate for
30 to 60g tanks) at my LFS. I read somewhere that a flter should turn
the water over 10x the tank capacity. Could be wrong, would not be the
1st time LOL ;-)

--
James

"Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
A reading of GH of 150 is not considered hard, over 200 would be. I am
curious as to your KH reading. Also do you currently treat your water,
ie water softner? I am also a bit leary of a NO3 reading of zero.
Under
10ppm yes, or even 5ppm, but I have never had a reading of zero,
myself.
You mention your water chemistry. Do you add chemicals for PH ect?

With the amount of fish currently in you tank. I would recommend
weekly
water changes. Overfeeding, is only one source of extra ammonia in the
water, all fish generate ammonia by gill action, urine and fish waste.
Your whisper 60 rates at 240gph, if memory serves me correct, which is
just a bit weak for your current tank, 300gph would be better.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

top-posted by demand...

I guess that just shows that there are so many different approaches and
thoughts about square inches of filter area per gallon vs. actual volume.

Thanks for the link. Your experience and input is most certainly respected
and will be ( as is everyone else's here :-) ). I have been doing this for
some time and I am still learning. I just don't want to learn at the expense
of my fisheys.

---
James


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
| 10x would normally be considered high, but is suitable for certain
| applications where there is a high degree of mechanical filtration needed
| (strong pickup power), or there are a lot of obstacles in the tank (mbuna
| in rockwork). For biological filtration, you do not need high exchanges,
| x2-x3 is sufficient. This might help you.
| http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/filters/filters.shtml
| --
| www.NetMax.tk
|
| "James" wrote in message
| news | Hmmmm.... I just noticed the Whisper is rated for 330gph ( adequate for
| 30 to 60g tanks) at my LFS. I read somewhere that a flter should turn
| the water over 10x the tank capacity. Could be wrong, would not be the
| 1st time LOL ;-)
|
| --
| James
|
| "Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
| ...
| A reading of GH of 150 is not considered hard, over 200 would be. I am
| curious as to your KH reading. Also do you currently treat your water,
| ie water softner? I am also a bit leary of a NO3 reading of zero.
| Under
| 10ppm yes, or even 5ppm, but I have never had a reading of zero,
| myself.
| You mention your water chemistry. Do you add chemicals for PH ect?
|
| With the amount of fish currently in you tank. I would recommend
| weekly
| water changes. Overfeeding, is only one source of extra ammonia in the
| water, all fish generate ammonia by gill action, urine and fish waste.
| Your whisper 60 rates at 240gph, if memory serves me correct, which is
| just a bit weak for your current tank, 300gph would be better.
|
|
|
| --
| Posted via CichlidFish.com
| http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums
|
| top-posted by demand...
|
|

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmmm.... I just noticed the Whisper is rated for 330gph ( adequate for
30 to 60g tanks) at my LFS. I read somewhere that a flter should turn
the water over 10x the tank capacity. Could be wrong, would not be the
1st time LOL ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not the first time my memory's been wrong.....

Must be the 40 I was thinking of, or the new 20-40.

Again I might be wrong, but I belive if you put peat moss in the filter
bag, where the charcol goes, this will help low the PH, without
chemicals. I really am not a chemical kind of guy, myself.

As for the filter rate, 10X is recomend on high biolad type fish,
generally the larger ones, or where you have a lot of fish in a tank.
Unless you have Angel fish ect, where high currents in the water are
harmfull to the fish, then I vote for high water turn over. Keeps it
cleaner, in the long run, plus, if you change over to fish that require
higher filter rates, then you allready have the equipment.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

"Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Hmmmm.... I just noticed the Whisper is rated for 330gph ( adequate for
| 30 to 60g tanks) at my LFS. I read somewhere that a flter should turn
| the water over 10x the tank capacity. Could be wrong, would not be the
| 1st time LOL ;-)
|
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Not the first time my memory's been wrong.....
|
| Must be the 40 I was thinking of, or the new 20-40.
|
| Again I might be wrong, but I belive if you put peat moss in the filter
| bag, where the charcol goes, this will help low the PH, without
| chemicals. I really am not a chemical kind of guy, myself.


Hmmm. have you added peat to a HOB filter before? I drop my water softener
pillows there without any issues (that I know of) I could setup another HOB
filter I guess to handle my water conditioning issues. I really need to have
my life back and be able to just remove some water, add some back.. then sit
back and enjoy like " normal" folks here LOL

|
| As for the filter rate, 10X is recomend on high biolad type fish,
| generally the larger ones, or where you have a lot of fish in a tank.
| Unless you have Angel fish ect, where high currents in the water are
| harmfull to the fish, then I vote for high water turn over. Keeps it
| cleaner, in the long run, plus, if you change over to fish that require
| higher filter rates, then you allready have the equipment.
|

No Angels in this tank and I really do not believe that the water turbulence
is bad since I have the flow thru my filter cut back about 60%. I plan on
cranking it back up ( slowly) as the water clarity improves.

Thanks Fuzzy for your comments ;-)

--
James