Sheet Lead - Pond

"newsgroup_reader" wrote in message
...
I have a circa 1940 gardening book with instructions for creating a pool
from sheet lead.

The abutting sheets are to be crimped at 90 degrees, one with 2 inches
overhang, the other with 1 inch. The longer is folded over the shorter,
then both are bent over and soldered along the seam. The pieces are joined
together in that manner into larger sections representing bottom and
sides, which are crimped together and soldered.

Can sheet-lead still be purchased? Would the lead surface oxidize over
time, as in pipes? The book says this will not harm fish, so I assume
either they're are lying, they never tried it, or some sort of patina
develops to prevent lead leaching into the water.

The book says copper can be substituted for lead, but from what I've read
this would also unhealthy for the creatures living in it.

What are your thoughts?

I've added rec.ponds to this, there are plenty of knowledgable people there
who probably know far more then I. I can't imagine that a pond made out of
lead sheets would be safe. Keep in mind that most building codes, atleast
those in america, ban the use of lead based solder in residential plumbing.

An entire pond made out of lead or copper is going to build up a fairly high
level of heavy metals in the water. I suppose you could build the pond shape
out of lead/copper, then line it with a pond liner.

-S

Yes, yuou can still buy sheet lead......pretty pricey........it sells
for over a buck a pound at scrap prices and it does not take much to
make apound of it. hate to see what it would cost new. Lead when
exposed to air and water makes an oxide filom which is pretty darn
tough. Normally its shiney silver, and it becomes dark with this oxide
coating on it. It should not hurt the fish any.......The leeching
problem with lead is mainly associated with water temps that are high,
such as in hot water lines, not cold water lines.

Copper also will not hurt the fish, as is commonly believed, up to a
certain point that is.........PH has a lot to do with copper and
problems with fish......As long as your PH is at a certain level
copper is safe, over that range and its toxic.......just to iffy to
take a chance with. I don't remember if it needs high or low ph to
become toxic, but for me its too expensive to use anyhow.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:05:07 GMT, "Snooze" wrote:

==="newsgroup_reader" wrote in message
...
===I have a circa 1940 gardening book with instructions for creating a pool
===from sheet lead.
===
=== The abutting sheets are to be crimped at 90 degrees, one with 2 inches
=== overhang, the other with 1 inch. The longer is folded over the shorter,
=== then both are bent over and soldered along the seam. The pieces are joined
=== together in that manner into larger sections representing bottom and
=== sides, which are crimped together and soldered.
===
=== Can sheet-lead still be purchased? Would the lead surface oxidize over
=== time, as in pipes? The book says this will not harm fish, so I assume
=== either they're are lying, they never tried it, or some sort of patina
=== develops to prevent lead leaching into the water.
===
=== The book says copper can be substituted for lead, but from what I've read
=== this would also unhealthy for the creatures living in it.
===
=== What are your thoughts?
===
===I've added rec.ponds to this, there are plenty of knowledgable people there
===who probably know far more then I. I can't imagine that a pond made out of
===lead sheets would be safe. Keep in mind that most building codes, atleast
===those in america, ban the use of lead based solder in residential plumbing.
===
===An entire pond made out of lead or copper is going to build up a fairly high
===level of heavy metals in the water. I suppose you could build the pond shape
===out of lead/copper, then line it with a pond liner.
===
===-S
===


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~Roy~ wrote:
Yes, yuou can still buy sheet lead......pretty pricey........it sells
for over a buck a pound at scrap prices and it does not take much to
make apound of it. hate to see what it would cost new. Lead when
exposed to air and water makes an oxide filom which is pretty darn
tough. Normally its shiney silver, and it becomes dark with this oxide
coating on it. It should not hurt the fish any.......The leeching
problem with lead is mainly associated with water temps that are high,
such as in hot water lines, not cold water lines.

Copper also will not hurt the fish, as is commonly believed, up to a
certain point that is.........PH has a lot to do with copper and
problems with fish......As long as your PH is at a certain level
copper is safe, over that range and its toxic.......just to iffy to
take a chance with. I don't remember if it needs high or low ph to
become toxic, but for me its too expensive to use anyhow.

Actually, even low levels of copper build up in fishes tissues.
Aquarists used to put copper pennies in their tanks to keep parasite and
snail levels low. It shortened the lifespans of the fish. I wouldn't
build a pond out of copper.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

I am assuming a book from 1940 suggests lead or copper because it can be
easily shaped and is very durable. With today's technology and hard
stretchable rubbers and plastics you only need to use liners of varying
types. It is much less expensive and safer for the fish and yourselves.

Snooze wrote:
"newsgroup_reader" wrote in message
...

I have a circa 1940 gardening book with instructions for creating a pool

from sheet lead.

The abutting sheets are to be crimped at 90 degrees, one with 2 inches
overhang, the other with 1 inch. The longer is folded over the shorter,
then both are bent over and soldered along the seam. The pieces are joined
together in that manner into larger sections representing bottom and
sides, which are crimped together and soldered.

Can sheet-lead still be purchased? Would the lead surface oxidize over
time, as in pipes? The book says this will not harm fish, so I assume
either they're are lying, they never tried it, or some sort of patina
develops to prevent lead leaching into the water.

The book says copper can be substituted for lead, but from what I've read
this would also unhealthy for the creatures living in it.

What are your thoughts?


I've added rec.ponds to this, there are plenty of knowledgable people there
who probably know far more then I. I can't imagine that a pond made out of
lead sheets would be safe. Keep in mind that most building codes, atleast
those in america, ban the use of lead based solder in residential plumbing.

An entire pond made out of lead or copper is going to build up a fairly high
level of heavy metals in the water. I suppose you could build the pond shape
out of lead/copper, then line it with a pond liner.

-S

Snooze wrote:

"newsgroup_reader" wrote in message
...
I have a circa 1940 gardening book with instructions for creating a pool
from sheet lead.
....
The book says copper can be substituted for lead, but from what I've read
this would also unhealthy for the creatures living in it.

What are your thoughts?

I've added rec.ponds to this, there are plenty of knowledgable people
there who probably know far more then I. I can't imagine that a pond made
out of lead sheets would be safe. Keep in mind that most building codes,
atleast those in america, ban the use of lead based solder in residential
plumbing.

I can't say I've ever heard of fish being subject to those kinds of lead
levels, but fish are generally not affected by lead. It's a nerve toxin,
and fish have much simpler nervous systems than we do. However, I just
shudder to think what legal ramifications there might be for you (and
possibly even health problems). It sounds chancy.

Copper is _definitely_ not a good idea. You'd not have any snails, dragon
fly larvae, hellgramites (OK, you don't really need those!) or other
invertebrates.
--
derek

Derek Broughton wrote:

I can't say I've ever heard of fish being subject to those kinds of lead
levels, but fish are generally not affected by lead. It's a nerve toxin,
and fish have much simpler nervous systems than we do. However, I just
shudder to think what legal ramifications there might be for you (and
possibly even health problems). It sounds chancy.

It would be OK if you didn't eat your pond fish. With acid rain, lead
carbonate is a common product in lead lined ponds. Lead carbonate is
not soluble in water. However, ponds high in nitrates would have lead
nitrate. That is soluble and dangerous. All the anacharis I buy has
lead weight strips wrapped around it. Just don't eat the fish.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

"Snooze" wrote in message
m...
"newsgroup_reader" wrote in message
...
I have a circa 1940 gardening book with instructions for creating a pool from
sheet lead.

The abutting sheets are to be crimped at 90 degrees, one with 2 inches
overhang, the other with 1 inch. The longer is folded over the shorter, then
both are bent over and soldered along the seam. The pieces are joined
together in that manner into larger sections representing bottom and sides,
which are crimped together and soldered.

Can sheet-lead still be purchased? Would the lead surface oxidize over time,
as in pipes? The book says this will not harm fish, so I assume either
they're are lying, they never tried it, or some sort of patina develops to
prevent lead leaching into the water.

The book says copper can be substituted for lead, but from what I've read
this would also unhealthy for the creatures living in it.

What are your thoughts?

I've added rec.ponds to this, there are plenty of knowledgable people there
who probably know far more then I. I can't imagine that a pond made out of
lead sheets would be safe. Keep in mind that most building codes, atleast
those in america, ban the use of lead based solder in residential plumbing.

An entire pond made out of lead or copper is going to build up a fairly high
level of heavy metals in the water. I suppose you could build the pond shape
out of lead/copper, then line it with a pond liner.

-S

Not only that, but since the water is likely not to meet the EPA's safe water
standards for lead, you then have an expensive disposal problem. If you simply
discard the contaminated water, then you risk contaminating your soil. If you
dump it in the sewer, and your sewer department finds out, then you are going to
be in very hot water. Then there is the problem of trying to sell your house at
a later date when someone asks you about your lead-lined pond.