CarboPlus

I would like to try and pool a discussion about the pros and cons of the
Carboplus device for controlling ph values in a tank. For those not aware
this is a device which claims to make CO2 from an electrolytic process. You
pass electricty across a stainless steel and carbon sandwhich and the water
breaks into H2 and O2 and the O2 is supposed to react with the carbon.
I am a chemist and find this highly unlikely to be the mechanism. In fact I
was so disbelieving that the shop assistant offered me my money back if
after trying it it did not work. However I have used the device for about
3 years and must confess it does bring the ph down. I still do not believe
in the mechanism and think it is more likely to be interaction with
carbonate in the water.

I have always lived in countries with very hard water and the tank ph runs
at aroung 6.9 with the device running wheras it has been almost 8 without
it. . However I now want to go to a true CO2 system as I am having constant
corrosion problems with the point where the cable joins the metal sandwhich.
Have others had this ? I have recieved seveal different designs and they all
fail after about 6 months usually as you change the second or third carbon
rod.

Can anyone propose a mechanism for the way this device works. In work we had
a long discussion about interference with the balance of carbonate and CO2
in the atmosphere. I have also heard that it is less effective when there is
no carbonate in the water, something which I notice as I have recently
switched to using rain water in the quarium as the carboplus was getting
coated and damaged by carbonate deposits.

Also has anyone lese had these constant corrosion problems with the device.

Pros :-
Does bring ph down
Does help plant growth (but not sure it really puts CO2 in ther water)

Cons
Sandwhich fails due to corrosion at teh point where teh cable meets the
sandwhich.
carbon rods need replacing every 3 months and are expensive
New carbon rods are very active and you need to play with setting in the
first few days until it settles down.
No good way to control ph other than trial and error.


Regards

Russell Barry
Switzerland

Cablecom wrote:
I would like to try and pool a discussion about the pros and cons of the
Carboplus device for controlling ph values in a tank. For those not aware
this is a device which claims to make CO2 from an electrolytic process. You
pass electricty across a stainless steel and carbon sandwhich and the water
breaks into H2 and O2 and the O2 is supposed to react with the carbon.
I am a chemist and find this highly unlikely to be the mechanism. In fact I
was so disbelieving that the shop assistant offered me my money back if
after trying it it did not work. However I have used the device for about
3 years and must confess it does bring the ph down. I still do not believe
in the mechanism and think it is more likely to be interaction with
carbonate in the water.
... (TRUNCATED)

Hi Russell -

I have no credentials other than the costly school of trial and error,
but have seen no effect with the carbon block (and have viewed many
posts and comments on internet newsgroups) which indicate limited if
any C02 being produced and no where near the 20-30 ppm that might be a
benefit to plants (and inhibit algae). Yours is the first comment on
the PH effect I have seen but I probably just passed that by, since my
focus was C02 production.

PH in my "from the tap" source is about 8.2 for me and my pressurized
C02 system holds the PH at 7.1 nicely resulting in a C02 content of
about 32 ppm. Plants flourish and algae is at a minimum. After months
of checking and examining everything that could easily help me put C02
in my tank, from your carbon block reaction system, to DIY yeast
bottles, there is no question for me that a pressurized system with PH
sensor and (what I think is the most important part of the system) an
excellent reaction chamber to get the C02 disolved into the water (for
me that would be a Rio Power Head and filter with C02 pumped in as PH
starts to rise) is the way to address C02 injection (with resulting
benefits of PH control). You can get a good visual on the primary
system components here http://rexgrigg.com/regset.html. A small tank
(about 10 pound) would have to be refilled about twice a year for a
heavy use system like mine. Your mileage will vary.

Good Luck!

Sysiphus wrote:
Cablecom wrote:
I would like to try and pool a discussion about the pros and cons of the
Carboplus device for controlling ph values in a tank. For those not aware
this is a device which claims to make CO2 from an electrolytic process. You
pass electricty across a stainless steel and carbon sandwhich and the water
breaks into H2 and O2 and the O2 is supposed to react with the carbon.
I am a chemist and find this highly unlikely to be the mechanism. In fact I
was so disbelieving that the shop assistant offered me my money back if
after trying it it did not work. However I have used the device for about
3 years and must confess it does bring the ph down. I still do not believe
in the mechanism and think it is more likely to be interaction with
carbonate in the water.
... (TRUNCATED)

Hi Russell -

I have no credentials other than the costly school of trial and error,
but have seen no effect with the carbon block (and have viewed many
posts and comments on internet newsgroups) which indicate limited if
any C02 being produced and no where near the 20-30 ppm that might be a
benefit to plants (and inhibit algae). Yours is the first comment on
the PH effect I have seen but I probably just passed that by, since my
focus was C02 production.

PH in my "from the tap" source is about 8.2 for me and my pressurized
C02 system holds the PH at 7.1 nicely resulting in a C02 content of
about 32 ppm. Plants flourish and algae is at a minimum. After months
of checking and examining everything that could easily help me put C02
in my tank, from your carbon block reaction system, to DIY yeast
bottles, there is no question for me that a pressurized system with PH
sensor and (what I think is the most important part of the system) an
excellent reaction chamber to get the C02 disolved into the water (for
me that would be a Rio Power Head and filter with C02 pumped in as PH
starts to rise) is the way to address C02 injection (with resulting
benefits of PH control). You can get a good visual on the primary
system components here http://rexgrigg.com/regset.html. A small tank
(about 10 pound) would have to be refilled about twice a year for a
heavy use system like mine. Your mileage will vary.

Good Luck!

The pressurized CO2 system you described is similar to the tropic
marine centre floramat which uses a simple aerosol can and is a very
simple (albeit not as controllable) way to inject CO2 into an aquarium.
This is my preferred method, but not because it is better, but do to
the fact that most of "my" aquariums were my service customers that I
would only see every week or two and this type of system needs less
maintenance than the other ways of introducing CO2 into aquariums that
are more aimed at serious hobbyists.

Carl

Thanks for your prompt answer.
I think the Carboplus probably works by releasing CO2 from breakdown of
carbonate in the hard water and our water is very hard here in Switzerland .
Anyhow I am moving to the pressurised CO2 system of the type you describe.

I saw a deal with a external reactor vs a cheaper system with an internal
flipper. My tank is 250 litres , is the flipper good enough as I have read
that they are good to 300 litres ? I will also include a ph controller as
you suggest.

Put together it is still probably cheaper then buying new sandwhiches for
the carboplus every couple of months.

regards

Russell

"carlrs" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sysiphus wrote:
Cablecom wrote:
I would like to try and pool a discussion about the pros and cons of
the
Carboplus device for controlling ph values in a tank. For those not
aware
this is a device which claims to make CO2 from an electrolytic process.
You
pass electricty across a stainless steel and carbon sandwhich and the
water
breaks into H2 and O2 and the O2 is supposed to react with the carbon.
I am a chemist and find this highly unlikely to be the mechanism. In
fact I
was so disbelieving that the shop assistant offered me my money back if
after trying it it did not work. However I have used the device for
about
3 years and must confess it does bring the ph down. I still do not
believe
in the mechanism and think it is more likely to be interaction with
carbonate in the water.
... (TRUNCATED)

Hi Russell -

I have no credentials other than the costly school of trial and error,
but have seen no effect with the carbon block (and have viewed many
posts and comments on internet newsgroups) which indicate limited if
any C02 being produced and no where near the 20-30 ppm that might be a
benefit to plants (and inhibit algae). Yours is the first comment on
the PH effect I have seen but I probably just passed that by, since my
focus was C02 production.

PH in my "from the tap" source is about 8.2 for me and my pressurized
C02 system holds the PH at 7.1 nicely resulting in a C02 content of
about 32 ppm. Plants flourish and algae is at a minimum. After months
of checking and examining everything that could easily help me put C02
in my tank, from your carbon block reaction system, to DIY yeast
bottles, there is no question for me that a pressurized system with PH
sensor and (what I think is the most important part of the system) an
excellent reaction chamber to get the C02 disolved into the water (for
me that would be a Rio Power Head and filter with C02 pumped in as PH
starts to rise) is the way to address C02 injection (with resulting
benefits of PH control). You can get a good visual on the primary
system components here http://rexgrigg.com/regset.html. A small tank
(about 10 pound) would have to be refilled about twice a year for a
heavy use system like mine. Your mileage will vary.

Good Luck!

The pressurized CO2 system you described is similar to the tropic
marine centre floramat which uses a simple aerosol can and is a very
simple (albeit not as controllable) way to inject CO2 into an aquarium.
This is my preferred method, but not because it is better, but do to
the fact that most of "my" aquariums were my service customers that I
would only see every week or two and this type of system needs less
maintenance than the other ways of introducing CO2 into aquariums that
are more aimed at serious hobbyists.

Carl