clown fish seem to be nibbling on my new mushrooms

Hi All,

I recently went out and bought some very attractive mushrooms - white
with filaments - so almost look hairy when extended.....this afternoon I
found one of them on the substrate....I watched the tank quite closely
after that and on of my clown fish is poking away at another
polyp....and looks as if she/he is about to send that one adrift as
well....now as I understand it, Clowns should be coral/reef friendly so
does anyone have any ideas what might be going on? (the tank is not
suitable for an anenome so I don't have one) Also what should I do with
the polyp sent adrift or is it a gonner?

Gill

The loose polyp should do fine in a sand bed. Clowns are known to
host in lots of things besides an anemone. I have em in feather
dusters, and also shrooms, with the frilly or wary shrooms being the
favorite. If yu ook close at the clown when its nibbling its more like
sucking onthe shroom than chewing on it. Mine sometimes look like its
nursing on the tentacles of the shrooms.......My 9ne tank with a clown
pair in it got so bad with the one clown stirring up the sand around a
big old shroom on the sand bed I had to relocate all shrooms or things
they hosed or showed an interest in up on the rocks, just so they
stopped wallowing out deepholes and stirring up the sand.

YOU can try fastening the polyp back down on the live rock. If there
is any substrate attached to its end like embedded sand etc just super
glue it in place or use a in or two to secure it on the live rock.


On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 23:36:00 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Hi All,

I recently went out and bought some very attractive mushrooms - white
with filaments - so almost look hairy when extended.....this afternoon I
found one of them on the substrate....I watched the tank quite closely
after that and on of my clown fish is poking away at another
polyp....and looks as if she/he is about to send that one adrift as
well....now as I understand it, Clowns should be coral/reef friendly so
does anyone have any ideas what might be going on? (the tank is not
suitable for an anenome so I don't have one) Also what should I do with
the polyp sent adrift or is it a gonner?

Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Things seem to be getting worse - there is now just one mushroom on the
LR and a couple of those in the substrate seem to be dissolving into
nothing at all - just managed to pull a dead bit out....wonder if this
is not related to the Clowns at all but some other issue in the tank
killing them off....

So much for me to learn *sigh*

Gill

hmm .......Shrooms are perhaps one of the most easy and forgiving
critters. They do well on live rock or in sand substrate. Usualy when
they start to turn white a rot is if there is too much light from what
I have observed with mine. Too little light usually makes them stand
way up and stretch towards the light source. Happy is when they are
laying flat and wrapped up and around whatever they are laying on. I
have also seem too much current flow make em look ragged, but usuallay
they release themselves and drift to a new locations, sometimes fdor
the better most times for the worse since they can not really control
where they floata off to. Try moving it in a lower flow area in a more
subdued light area of the aquarium. I am not gonna say a clown will
not destroy a shroom etc, its just not usually normal behavior of one
to do so. I do know that over time they will sort of rag one out from
their constant attention, but it takes a bit of time for that to
happen. Usually the shroom will ballup and keep the clown away by not
opening up for it to host in.


On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:53:40 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:



Things seem to be getting worse - there is now just one mushroom on the
LR and a couple of those in the substrate seem to be dissolving into
nothing at all - just managed to pull a dead bit out....wonder if this
is not related to the Clowns at all but some other issue in the tank
killing them off....

So much for me to learn *sigh*

Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Tristan wrote:
hmm .......Shrooms are perhaps one of the most easy and forgiving
critters. They do well on live rock or in sand substrate. Usualy when
they start to turn white a rot is if there is too much light from what
I have observed with mine. Too little light usually makes them stand
way up and stretch towards the light source. Happy is when they are
laying flat and wrapped up and around whatever they are laying on. I
have also seem too much current flow make em look ragged, but usuallay
they release themselves and drift to a new locations, sometimes fdor
the better most times for the worse since they can not really control
where they floata off to. Try moving it in a lower flow area in a more
subdued light area of the aquarium. I am not gonna say a clown will
not destroy a shroom etc, its just not usually normal behavior of one
to do so. I do know that over time they will sort of rag one out from
their constant attention, but it takes a bit of time for that to
happen. Usually the shroom will ballup and keep the clown away by not
opening up for it to host in.



Hmmm...the shrooms in question are at the bottom of the tank - opposite
side to my green mushrooms that are doing well - of course their
neighbours are different - the shrooms are next to a capnella and
reasonably close to some buttons...they were white/cream when I bought
them but sold as being that colouration - what is left of them is
certainly whiter and looks as if they are disintegrating - bought them 4
days ago so the decline has been pretty rapid. When I got them there
were about 6 of them on the LR - now have one on the substrate and one
on the LR....unless of course they have floated elsewhere - I've only
pulled out the remains of one...

The things looked as if they were doing just fine until I noticed the
clowns nibbling on them - maybe they were nibbling as the shrooms were
already goners....I bought a leather at the same time and this is doing
just great as are the button hitchhikers that came with it.....

Wish I could get to the bottom of this - I'm guessing it is something
that I have done but just can't think what at the moment....seems to me
that some corals suit the tank but not others but can't quite see the
pattern yet - even can't pin it down to species - the other coral I have
a problem with are the GSP that still haven't put on a show - but the
pink star polyps are doing fine again.....

Gill

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:47:05 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Tristan wrote:
hmm .......Shrooms are perhaps one of the most easy and forgiving
critters. They do well on live rock or in sand substrate. Usualy when
they start to turn white a rot is if there is too much light from what
Shrooms are just so hardy of a critter they are most adaptive to what
they get and its really hard to screw em up. I personally have never
seen a shroom that was naturally w hite. I have obtained shrooms that
were white and almost to thr point they were almost transparent or at
least opaque from being buried under the sand or way back under live
rock etc. They all recovered over a period of time and took on a
coloration of one degree or another. Heck I had a shroom I had placed
in a plastic cup one day to relocate to another tank that I forgot
abaout, and it sat in little to nno water for close to two days and
the wife moved it off the top of the aquarium to the back of the
counter in the spare bath we use mainly to accomodate the associated
fish keeping requirements. It set in there n the dark for over a week,
and it recovered in no time once it was restored to a proper
environment. Your water parameters are not really out of line from
what I seen previously or to the point that it wold cause a problem
with a shroom. I sure do not know what to tell you. I hate to
question the integrity of them actually being a shroom.......

There is not a chemical warfare situation going on between them and
the other corals is there? I just do not have any kind of answer or
something other than relocate them to offer at this point.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Tristan wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:47:05 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:


Tristan wrote:

hmm .......Shrooms are perhaps one of the most easy and forgiving
critters. They do well on live rock or in sand substrate. Usualy when
they start to turn white a rot is if there is too much light from what

Shrooms are just so hardy of a critter they are most adaptive to what
they get and its really hard to screw em up. I personally have never
seen a shroom that was naturally w hite. I have obtained shrooms that
were white and almost to thr point they were almost transparent or at
least opaque from being buried under the sand or way back under live
rock etc. They all recovered over a period of time and took on a
coloration of one degree or another. Heck I had a shroom I had placed
in a plastic cup one day to relocate to another tank that I forgot
abaout, and it sat in little to nno water for close to two days and
the wife moved it off the top of the aquarium to the back of the
counter in the spare bath we use mainly to accomodate the associated
fish keeping requirements. It set in there n the dark for over a week,
and it recovered in no time once it was restored to a proper
environment. Your water parameters are not really out of line from
what I seen previously or to the point that it wold cause a problem
with a shroom. I sure do not know what to tell you. I hate to
question the integrity of them actually being a shroom.......

There is not a chemical warfare situation going on between them and
the other corals is there? I just do not have any kind of answer or
something other than relocate them to offer at this point.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Seem to have got to the bottom of it....like you suggested a moved the
shroom (left the one that is in the substrate) and the substrate was
black underneath - and yep, with that dreaded egg smell....I carefully
syringed the water/substrate out with my turkey baster until all I was
getting was clear water....I then did a check around the tank and there
were quite a few dead button polyps hanging around - these took quite a
bashing with the red slime....So I'm guessing the buttons got finished
off by the red slime and then the decaying buttons which I hadn't
spotted before then did for the mushrooms....fingers crossed that I
managed to sort this before anything else goes the same route....

I'm hoping that this clean up plus a vigile for more "dead" buttons
coupled with a water change (I'm already running carbon short term)
might sort things - here's hoping anyway....

Thanks for your help
Gill

You said this mushroom send out long filament like tentacles? Or at
least I think thats what you said. That statement has just been
setting in my head going round and round for some reason as to
hopefully id what shrooms yu may have. Are these long filaments coming
out of the mouth by chance? I have a few mushrooms that seem to puke
their guts out if conditions are not right, now that I think of it,
and seem to be more fussy than the typical shroom is. Its like a bunch
of fine white sphagetti that is expelled, and later on its retracted
back inside them. I have always been told this is their guts.....dunno
for sure. I have a frilly shroom and an umbrella shroom and two warty
shrooms that will "spill their guts" and go poor looking for a few
days if they get disturbed.

I have to think the black under the shroom wsa red slime that was
smothered out.

Have yu done any more checking on the use of RODI water....the DI
alone is going to be a big help in elimminating phosphates, nitrate
andsilicates in reef tank water. Not a problem with RO in a FO tank,
but a reef is almost certainly best off and more trouble free with
RODI water. (that is unless yu listen to Guyan ;-)

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 17:26:28 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Tristan wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:47:05 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:


Tristan wrote:

hmm .......Shrooms are perhaps one of the most easy and forgiving
critters. They do well on live rock or in sand substrate. Usualy when
they start to turn white a rot is if there is too much light from what

Shrooms are just so hardy of a critter they are most adaptive to what
they get and its really hard to screw em up. I personally have never
seen a shroom that was naturally w hite. I have obtained shrooms that
were white and almost to thr point they were almost transparent or at
least opaque from being buried under the sand or way back under live
rock etc. They all recovered over a period of time and took on a
coloration of one degree or another. Heck I had a shroom I had placed
in a plastic cup one day to relocate to another tank that I forgot
abaout, and it sat in little to nno water for close to two days and
the wife moved it off the top of the aquarium to the back of the
counter in the spare bath we use mainly to accomodate the associated
fish keeping requirements. It set in there n the dark for over a week,
and it recovered in no time once it was restored to a proper
environment. Your water parameters are not really out of line from
what I seen previously or to the point that it wold cause a problem
with a shroom. I sure do not know what to tell you. I hate to
question the integrity of them actually being a shroom.......

There is not a chemical warfare situation going on between them and
the other corals is there? I just do not have any kind of answer or
something other than relocate them to offer at this point.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Seem to have got to the bottom of it....like you suggested a moved the
shroom (left the one that is in the substrate) and the substrate was
black underneath - and yep, with that dreaded egg smell....I carefully
syringed the water/substrate out with my turkey baster until all I was
getting was clear water....I then did a check around the tank and there
were quite a few dead button polyps hanging around - these took quite a
bashing with the red slime....So I'm guessing the buttons got finished
off by the red slime and then the decaying buttons which I hadn't
spotted before then did for the mushrooms....fingers crossed that I
managed to sort this before anything else goes the same route....

I'm hoping that this clean up plus a vigile for more "dead" buttons
coupled with a water change (I'm already running carbon short term)
might sort things - here's hoping anyway....

Thanks for your help
Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Tristan wrote:

You said this mushroom send out long filament like tentacles? Or at
least I think thats what you said. That statement has just been
setting in my head going round and round for some reason as to
hopefully id what shrooms yu may have. Are these long filaments coming
out of the mouth by chance?

Certainly looks that way to me...and on those that have "dissolved" all
I am seeing is these filaments floating around in the tank...

I have a few mushrooms that seem to puke
their guts out if conditions are not right, now that I think of it,
and seem to be more fussy than the typical shroom is. Its like a bunch
of fine white sphagetti that is expelled, and later on its retracted
back inside them. I have always been told this is their guts.....dunno
for sure. I have a frilly shroom and an umbrella shroom and two warty
shrooms that will "spill their guts" and go poor looking for a few
days if they get disturbed.

So perhaps even putting them in the tank was enough to disturb
them....and a little bit too much for all but two of them - actually it
has to be said I've only found one dead one - and that one was most
definetely a goner...

And yes I have most definitely seen this....certainly the one on the LR
did it this pm when I tried moving it and is now slowly retracting the
stuff....


I have to think the black under the shroom wsa red slime that was
smothered out.

could well be but if it was producing Hydrogen Sulphide this would not
be good for the mushrooms...and there was a distinct eggy smell - I was
very careful when cleaning up to avoid as much of this as possible going
into the water column - and believe me the kitchen sink still smells
manky from where I disposed of the water....

Have yu done any more checking on the use of RODI water....the DI
alone is going to be a big help in elimminating phosphates, nitrate
andsilicates in reef tank water. Not a problem with RO in a FO tank,
but a reef is almost certainly best off and more trouble free with
RODI water. (that is unless yu listen to Guyan ;-)

No, I still need to....am kind of hoping to get to the LFS tomorrow if I
can resolve my concience on trip to LFS versus all the Christmas
shopping I need to get done...

Thanks for the info on the white spaghetti - that is most definitely
what they are up to....

Gill