RESULT: rec.ponds.moderated will be created

"Reel McKoi" wrote:


This is true but it doesn't last. After a day or two the personal attacks
begin again.

And you join right in.

**Sigh**


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

"Gary Woods" wrote in message
...
"Reel McKoi" wrote:


This is true but it doesn't last. After a day or two the personal attacks
begin again.

And you join right in.

**Sigh**
==========================
Gary, I can assure you, if you looked at the headers of the insulting,
degrading and obscene posts you would see they are not mine. Earthlink,
Qwest and Verison were never my ISPs. I have never called anyone here a
whore, a slut, a child porn addict, and all the other things I have been
called these past 2 years. I have not accused anyone of having diseased
fish, etc. etc.... nor have I harassed anyone every time they posted as I am
now being harassed by several regulars. What concerns me is two of them are
moderators who never did this before. I thought moderators would be above
reproach. I see I was wrong. Suddenly, after posting here for many years,
my every post is being questioned and nit-picked to death.

--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Nigel Sixsmith" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:45:27 GMT, Gary Woods
wrote:

"Reel McKoi" wrote:


This is true but it doesn't last. After a day or two the personal attacks
begin again.

And you join right in.

**Sigh**


Sadly this has been true.

The 'real' test will be when r.p.m. is created and moderated however.

I hope Carol is 'strong' enough to unsubscribe from r.p. and just use
r.p.m. Then she would not know what goes on in there and it would not
bother her.

For the record:
My dear Nigel, two of those who joined in on the "flame war" as it's called
will soon be moderators of r.p.m., and one is even this day "harassing" and
questioning me and insulting me on this NG. That does not make the new
moderated group very appealing. How would one of my posts ever get past
them if everything is questioned and nit-picked to death? Just look at what
happened over the koi pox issue (accusations, assumptions, lies) yet not one
word to a man who advised someone to do something illegal - shoot and kill
herons.

However, my gut feeling is that the temptation to continue to read that
group, will be too strong (as was the temptation to continue to respond
to the flame posts) and so the flame war will continue though,
thankfully, not in the new group.

Unless my posts go though one of the neutral moderators I have the feeling
I'm going to be treated there as they treat me here....

Maybe it's too tough habit to break but it really would be in Carol's
best interests as well as r.p's... to do so.

I agree... as long as neutral moderators are involved.


Nigel Sixsmith
The Art Of Sound Studios
Gilbert, AZ
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

"Nigel Sixsmith" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 17:37:54 -0600, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:


"Nigel Sixsmith" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:45:27 GMT, Gary Woods
wrote:

"Reel McKoi" wrote:


This is true but it doesn't last. After a day or two the personal
attacks
begin again.

And you join right in.

**Sigh**


Sadly this has been true.

The 'real' test will be when r.p.m. is created and moderated however.

I hope Carol is 'strong' enough to unsubscribe from r.p. and just use
r.p.m. Then she would not know what goes on in there and it would not
bother her.

For the record:
My dear Nigel, two of those who joined in on the "flame war" as it's
called
will soon be moderators of r.p.m., and one is even this day "harassing"
and
questioning me and insulting me on this NG. That does not make the new
moderated group very appealing. How would one of my posts ever get past
them if everything is questioned and nit-picked to death? Just look at
what
happened over the koi pox issue (accusations, assumptions, lies) yet not
one
word to a man who advised someone to do something illegal - shoot and kill
herons.

However, my gut feeling is that the temptation to continue to read that
group, will be too strong (as was the temptation to continue to respond
to the flame posts) and so the flame war will continue though,
thankfully, not in the new group.

Unless my posts go though one of the neutral moderators I have the feeling
I'm going to be treated there as they treat me here....

Maybe it's too tough habit to break but it really would be in Carol's
best interests as well as r.p's... to do so.

I agree... as long as neutral moderators are involved.
========
Carol,

Ok.. first a quick disclaimer

As you know (or I hope you know) I have ventured not to point any
fingers at any one person because frankly, half the time I don't know
who is who... and I am not sure what is or isn't the truth, as far as
the facts are concerned, in this long standing saga.
I am not going to change this attitude either. Therefore, I'm going to
say this in general terms so I hope you do not think that I mean just
you when I refer to those who participated in the flame war.
I too, noted that the flame war didn't just consist of three people (and
100's of socks) but that there were others that joined in at times and
it may well be that a couple of those people are now going to be
moderators.

However, I can and do fully sympathize with any regular of r.p. who got
annoyed and irritated by the ongoing flame war in their group and I can
well imagine that these people, at times, were exasperated at the fact
that none of the main protagonists could not prevent themselves from
continuing with the disruption of that group. So, if any of them took
umbrage and vented their anger and irritation at any one particular
person, at any given time, then I would not be at all surprised.

I understand that, and have stated I understood their anger and frustration
several times. They know I'm aware of their feelings. But once the
moderated group became a certainty that should have stopped. It didn't. A
killfile alone can handle the few trolls left here now. Most of the other
trolls cross-posted in have moved on as trolls do. But it didn't stop as I
said - hence the koi pox thread and everything I post being questioned,
sometimes twisted and nit-picked. The other moderator involved wasn't even
a regular here at the time. She's from RAFM and moved to a moderated Google
Aquarium group when Roy (Tristan) invaded that group and started attacking
people there. I was blamed for bringing him there as if I had that power
over a grown man. Yes, that accusation angered me. But if I show anger I'm
called a troll. Suddenly she's back insulting, provoking and questioning
me here and on several other groups. This never went on before - why now?
It's like I'm not allowed to feel or show anger and frustration over what's
going on. I feel like I'm being held to some different standard, especially
when I was advised to "endure the abuse in silence."

Now the new group is going to be created and yes, it may well be that a
couple of the moderators have some 'baggage' to deal with in terms of
their own personal feelings towards any/all of the protagonists of the
flame war. It may be that they could be somewhat biased against the
protagonists either now or in the future but they are only two or three
of the total number of moderators and if any personal bias is shown to
the degree that warrants any of the protagonists feeling that their
completely on topic posts (according to the group's charter) were
rejected because of who they are rather than what they wrote, then those
people can always resubmit their posting and ask for the rest of the
moderators to assess if the post was or was not on topic according to
the charter.

I understand this but how many people would go through the hassle to
resubmit their rejected post asking for someone else to have a look at it?
Surely after the second or third time they'd give up and use the
un-moderated group. Don't think moderators don't know this. Please
remember if a moderator wants to exclude someone they will "nit
pick-pick-pick" and find a reason to reject their posts. I'm not saying by
any means that these women would stoop that low, but human nature is what it
is...... and we often do things subconsciously.

If, after that takes place and the OP still feels that their post was
rejected improperly then the OP can seek support by posting the entire
post along with the reasons given for rejection in another group (n.g.
comes to mind but they might not find too much sympathy there at times
but there are other groups available too) and hope that such support
forcing the moderators to reconsider their position but again, it may be
just wasted effort on their OP's behalf.

No one would go through that trouble. Even if they got support in another
group it would have no effect on the rec.pond mod's decisions. Only the
other mods would have an effect if a few other mods were being biased. That
is if they were aware of it and if they cared enough to speak up. At this
time I think they would if they were aware of the bias.

However, it is the decision of the moderators as to what is and isn't on
topic and one must accept such decisions (and in actuality one has no
choice most of the time) and resubmit one's post according to their
guidelines.

Before this mess my posts were ON-TOPIC. I seldom even got involved in off
topic threads. I just skipped them from lack of interest. If I didn't like
someone or found their posts boring, I ignored them.

That is the penalty, if you like, of moderation. One puts one's faith in
the moderators to do a good job at moderation but sometimes, it can and
does go wrong and if so, there is little anyone can do about it as the
moderators have the last say and literally can do whatever they want,
unless it is something that is so outrageous or illegal that other
factors come into play and NSP's decide to remove the group from their
lists or the submission address is removed by Todd for example (I think
that is who can do that but don't quote me on it)

So, the users of r.p. got their moderated group and that's great but
there are consequences to that occurring and the kind of thing you are
commenting on, is one of those consequences we all have to live with.

I have a feeling I'm being singled out because these two women didn't
nit-pic, twist what I say or question every message before and they don't do
it to anyone else. One tells me she's not comfortable communicating with me
but then runs a whole thread concerning my "dumping diseased fish"......
while completely ignoring another poster advising people to illegally kill
herons. Then another moderator defends the poster advising the illegal
shooting of protected birds. What am I and others to think reading those
threads?!?!?!?! Had I advised the illegal killing of herons you can be sure
they wouldn't have ignored it......

I would also suggest that if any of the protagonists wish to post in
r.p.m. they might not wish to criticize any of the moderated by name in
other groups for, the moderators are only human after all, and the
protagonists do not want to bite the hand that feeds them

And the hand that feeds them should not abuse them either. You don't offer
your pet or child or friend something (posting) and then kick them in the
stomach when they approach you (verbally abuse them in some way). It's my
belief respectful communication should be mutual. Is this going to happen
with everything I post? Before she even knew the facts I was accused of
doing something both illegal and immoral. Please remember I've mentioned
releasing culls in farm ponds with the owner's permission before and she
never said a word over the years.

unless they
have already been bitten hard back and cannot post successfully on topic
to the new group.

I would have no problem posting to a moderated group and have in the past.
As for biting the hand that feeds ... I feel I've been severely bitten by
both of these people.

As far as you are concerned Carol, I believe that you or your posts will
not be singled out for special treatment and nor should you be, by the
moderators, so long as you remain on topic in your posts and so long as
you bear in mind some the points I have raised earlier in this post

If you can ever prove to me that you have always posted on topic for the
new group and yet you were still prevented from posting there, I would
be fighting in your corner for what that would be worth, to change that.

The same applies to anyone else who had similar issues with any
moderator in any group.

Thank you........


Regards

Nigel

--

Nigel Sixsmith
The Art Of Sound Studios
Gilbert, AZ
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö