Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)

I would like to know how many koi rec.ponder's are really stocking in
their ponds. I have seen the recommended stock postings, yet I wonder
what is really being done by the average pond enthusiast.

Preface, As of right now I have an approximate 1500 gallon pond with 5
Koi, 2 comets, 3 feeder goldfish(Don't really want them - just
inherited them) and hundreds of mosquito fish. In addition I have
ton's of WH, 5 water Lilies, Hornwort, Anacharis and a bunch of
marginals. But that is not where I started....

I built my first pond when I was 13, my dad bought a tetra flexible
liner and I dug the hole and put it in. We used this for a couple of
years then I swithed to fiberglass stock tanks then finally to
preformed liners. I had never had anything larger than 200 gallons.
For the first 8 years I had no plants at all – just fish. I started
with 12 Koi. Yes, 12. Nedra... get up off the floor. They were
all around 2-3 inches when I bought them. The first 2 years I kept
them outside in the summer and inside during the winter. Then in the
summer of my third year I was cleaning the pond when I had to leave
for a while and I accidently left the pump draining the pond.
Needless to say I lost 7 fish. Some to the lack of water, others to
sunburning. The remaining 5 fish stayed in the pond year round after
that. I never used chemicals for algae, nor did I have ANY
filtration. Frequent well water changes where it. We lost 3 of the
five during the 5 years I was at college. Not all at once, nor in the
same year. My remaining two fish stayed at my parents house until
1998 when I moved them to my 200 gallon pond I put in at my new house.
This was the first time they had ever had a filter, in addition I
started to use algae controllers since I was on city water and
couldn't change it like I did before. 3 years ago I almost lost both
of them to disease after a really cold winter and bad sludge problems
in the pond. At this time I had the two original fish plus 1 of the
koi mentioned above and the two comets in the pond. I medicated them
with a ton of medication and brought them back from sick curled up
floaters to healthy fish. Later that year I lost one of the two
original to the same disease. The other made it until last year when
he mysteriously died while I was on vacation. I examined him but
there was no sign of disease. He was 16 years old and had spent his
life in less than 200 gallons and was the friendliest fish I have ever
had.

So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is
more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules,
yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from
those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the
raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done
this, so I am curious what others are really doing.

"Chad" wrote in message
om...
snip
So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is
more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules,
yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from
those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the
raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done
this, so I am curious what others are really doing.
snip

Pond Size: Rough Guess 3000 U.S. Gallons
Koi: 4
Goldfish: 5-7
Rosie Reds: 6,457,893


BV.

"Chad" wrote in message
om...
snip
So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is
more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules,
yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from
those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the
raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done
this, so I am curious what others are really doing.

Updated counts:

Pond Size: Rough Guess 3000 U.S. Gallons
Koi: 4
Goldfish: 5-7
Rosie Reds: 10,123,004

Size doesn't matter when stocking. When stocking fish you have two things to
contend with:

Quality of life for a fish. You can keep a 18" koi alive in 1 gallon of
water but what kind of life is that? The 1000 gallons for the first koi is
so it has room to move freely.

Amount of waste and what you do with that waste. If you do a 100% water
change every day you can again keep a 18" koi alive in 1 gallon of water.
Instead of replacing water to reduce the amount of waste some people filter
the waste through bio filters to convert it and then use plants to absorb
it. There's no difference between he two. With each you're getting rid of
the waste. Now I doubt it's possible to do a water change with city water
for a 5,000 gallon pond every week just for the sheer cost of it. Even well
water costs money in electricity to pump it out of the ground not to mention
the time it'd take to do it.

Sam


"Chad" wrote in message
om...
I would like to know how many koi rec.ponder's are really stocking in
their ponds. I have seen the recommended stock postings, yet I wonder
what is really being done by the average pond enthusiast.

Preface, As of right now I have an approximate 1500 gallon pond with 5
Koi, 2 comets, 3 feeder goldfish(Don't really want them - just
inherited them) and hundreds of mosquito fish. In addition I have
ton's of WH, 5 water Lilies, Hornwort, Anacharis and a bunch of
marginals. But that is not where I started....

I built my first pond when I was 13, my dad bought a tetra flexible
liner and I dug the hole and put it in. We used this for a couple of
years then I swithed to fiberglass stock tanks then finally to
preformed liners. I had never had anything larger than 200 gallons.
For the first 8 years I had no plants at all - just fish. I started
with 12 Koi. Yes, 12. Nedra... get up off the floor. They were
all around 2-3 inches when I bought them. The first 2 years I kept
them outside in the summer and inside during the winter. Then in the
summer of my third year I was cleaning the pond when I had to leave
for a while and I accidently left the pump draining the pond.
Needless to say I lost 7 fish. Some to the lack of water, others to
sunburning. The remaining 5 fish stayed in the pond year round after
that. I never used chemicals for algae, nor did I have ANY
filtration. Frequent well water changes where it. We lost 3 of the
five during the 5 years I was at college. Not all at once, nor in the
same year. My remaining two fish stayed at my parents house until
1998 when I moved them to my 200 gallon pond I put in at my new house.
This was the first time they had ever had a filter, in addition I
started to use algae controllers since I was on city water and
couldn't change it like I did before. 3 years ago I almost lost both
of them to disease after a really cold winter and bad sludge problems
in the pond. At this time I had the two original fish plus 1 of the
koi mentioned above and the two comets in the pond. I medicated them
with a ton of medication and brought them back from sick curled up
floaters to healthy fish. Later that year I lost one of the two
original to the same disease. The other made it until last year when
he mysteriously died while I was on vacation. I examined him but
there was no sign of disease. He was 16 years old and had spent his
life in less than 200 gallons and was the friendliest fish I have ever
had.

So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is
more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules,
yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from
those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the
raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done
this, so I am curious what others are really doing.

"zookeeper" wrote in message
...
snip
BV, in your case, are you trying to find the upper limit of
"overstocking" for Rosie Reds? Or is this part of the "pond shop"
inventory?
snip

To be honest I have not been able to find a test kit to tell me the ppm of
water in my rosie red pond.

BV.

BenignVanilla wrote:
"Chad" wrote in message
om...
snip

So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is
more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules,
yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from
those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the
raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done
this, so I am curious what others are really doing.

snip

pond 8000 gal june 120 Koi---- now 25


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Chad, I started this ponding experience as the direct result
of having my gorgeous back yard torn up for a 'new' septic
system. I was so angry - that I went for water instead of lawn.
My first pond was 125 gallons. I thought it was Big!! So
I bought 5 tiny little koi and 3 goldfish. I had two water
lilies, a 325 gph pump and a filter. Also lots of bought
water plants. This was in the fall of 1994. A month
later, November to be exact, I had a 3,000 gallon pond built!
Not that the fish went in this monstrosity ... Oh No! They
wintered over in the 125 gallon pond. I trudged out to that tiny
little pond many times a day.... just watching the inactive koi!
They all lived over the Very Mild Winter. I had two test kits;
pond books by the dozens; De-Icers (two);
water gardening friends on the Internet
(most famous one is Helen Nash).
In the spring I shop vac'd the small pond; then caught the fish and turned
them loose in the big pond. In May of that year we had rains
that would *not* quit ... the liner lifted up from the ground and
let all the sandy loam (I'd paid a fortune for that dirt!) into
the pond. A year later I had the sides built up and the rocky
surround built. It has been an experience...
So, when I quote the theories and such it is because I would
like to have folks avoid the pitfalls I have fallen into. I think
I was very lucky to have wintered over the 5 four inch koi.
I learned a bunch - not only from books (I'm a book-aholic)
but also from the good folk here on rec.ponds.

I now have a total of 13 Koi. Some are huge - some are their
offspring. I haven't lost any fish.... that would be something I'm
not sure I could handle.
You can see the beginnings of my experiences in the websites
below. The first - is well.... the first ;-) The second is mostly
lotuses.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Chad" wrote in message
om...
I would like to know how many koi rec.ponder's are really stocking in
their ponds. I have seen the recommended stock postings, yet I wonder
what is really being done by the average pond enthusiast.

Preface, As of right now I have an approximate 1500 gallon pond with 5
Koi, 2 comets, 3 feeder goldfish(Don't really want them - just
inherited them) and hundreds of mosquito fish. In addition I have
ton's of WH, 5 water Lilies, Hornwort, Anacharis and a bunch of
marginals. But that is not where I started....

I built my first pond when I was 13, my dad bought a tetra flexible
liner and I dug the hole and put it in. We used this for a couple of
years then I swithed to fiberglass stock tanks then finally to
preformed liners. I had never had anything larger than 200 gallons.
For the first 8 years I had no plants at all - just fish. I started
with 12 Koi. Yes, 12. Nedra... get up off the floor. They were
all around 2-3 inches when I bought them. The first 2 years I kept
them outside in the summer and inside during the winter. Then in the
summer of my third year I was cleaning the pond when I had to leave
for a while and I accidently left the pump draining the pond.
Needless to say I lost 7 fish. Some to the lack of water, others to
sunburning. The remaining 5 fish stayed in the pond year round after
that. I never used chemicals for algae, nor did I have ANY
filtration. Frequent well water changes where it. We lost 3 of the
five during the 5 years I was at college. Not all at once, nor in the
same year. My remaining two fish stayed at my parents house until
1998 when I moved them to my 200 gallon pond I put in at my new house.
This was the first time they had ever had a filter, in addition I
started to use algae controllers since I was on city water and
couldn't change it like I did before. 3 years ago I almost lost both
of them to disease after a really cold winter and bad sludge problems
in the pond. At this time I had the two original fish plus 1 of the
koi mentioned above and the two comets in the pond. I medicated them
with a ton of medication and brought them back from sick curled up
floaters to healthy fish. Later that year I lost one of the two
original to the same disease. The other made it until last year when
he mysteriously died while I was on vacation. I examined him but
there was no sign of disease. He was 16 years old and had spent his
life in less than 200 gallons and was the friendliest fish I have ever
had.

So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is
more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules,
yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from
those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the
raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done
this, so I am curious what others are really doing.

BenignVanilla wrote:
"zookeeper" wrote in message
...
snip

BV, in your case, are you trying to find the upper limit of
"overstocking" for Rosie Reds? Or is this part of the "pond shop"

inventory?
snip

To be honest I have not been able to find a test kit to tell me the ppm of
water in my rosie red pond.

BV.



oh thank goodness I forgot my cofee cup but i did inhale a cigarete LOL
--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

BenignVanilla wrote:

Updated counts:
..........
Rosie Reds: 10,123,004

What a coincidence! Last time I counted the guppies in my turtle tank I
had exactly the same number: 10,123,004.


Ruth Kazez

Pond size: close estimate of 3,000 gallons
Koi: 5
Goldfish and mutts: 30ish
Rosie Reds: all eaten by bullfrogs
(BV try inviting a few hit frogs to SH's pond.)


k30a