I'm back - with a filter question

Wow, I have off this ng for a long time. This is Gary from San
Diego/Carlsbad area. To you long timers, I used to go by Wallygator and
AbbeyRoad a long, long time ago. Here is my pond question that I hope
someone can answer.

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter and UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year. As the
fish have grown, the filter has clogged and now it is a quite a challenge to
keep the pond crystal clear. In fact, the pond used to be swimming pool
clear, but is not closer to city park pond - meaning about a foot of
visability.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond. I totally understand the supersize concept,
and if cost were no object that is a good solution. But here are my
questions:

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with this? I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Any other advice? Thanks all,

Gary

"gng" wrote in message
...
Wow, I have off this ng for a long time. This is Gary from San
Diego/Carlsbad area. To you long timers, I used to go by Wallygator and
AbbeyRoad a long, long time ago. Here is my pond question that I hope
someone can answer.

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter and UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year. As the
fish have grown, the filter has clogged and now it is a quite a challenge to
keep the pond crystal clear. In fact, the pond used to be swimming pool
clear, but is not closer to city park pond - meaning about a foot of
visability.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond. I totally understand the supersize concept,
and if cost were no object that is a good solution. But here are my
questions:

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with this? I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Any other advice? Thanks all,

Gary


Add a pre-filter on the intake side of your pump, and clean it out regularly,
then add a biofilter somewhere on the output side, after the main filter but
before the waterfall, and add more plants to the pond if you have room. Can you
post a link to some pics of your pond? I think that if you have to backwash
daily, you have too heavy a load in your pond. Additionally, backwashing,
especially daily, will not allow beneficial bacteria to colonize your filter.
Adding a pre-filter with regular maintenance will help prevent the main filter
from excessive build up of muck.

I took out most of the plants over the weekend as the fish seemed to need
more room and were hanging at the waterfall. I still have 3 large water
lilly plants left, about 1/3 of the water surface covered.

Could you define pre-filter and perhaps give me a brand name? I use a
basket in front of the filter to stop the algae and misc plant junk.

" George" wrote in message
.. .

"gng" wrote in message
...
Wow, I have off this ng for a long time. This is Gary from San
Diego/Carlsbad area. To you long timers, I used to go by Wallygator and
AbbeyRoad a long, long time ago. Here is my pond question that I hope
someone can answer.

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter
and UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year. As
the
fish have grown, the filter has clogged and now it is a quite a
challenge to
keep the pond crystal clear. In fact, the pond used to be swimming pool
clear, but is not closer to city park pond - meaning about a foot of
visability.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The
are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond. I totally understand the supersize
concept,
and if cost were no object that is a good solution. But here are my
questions:

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better
flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but
that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with
this? I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Any other advice? Thanks all,

Gary


Add a pre-filter on the intake side of your pump, and clean it out
regularly,
then add a biofilter somewhere on the output side, after the main filter
but
before the waterfall, and add more plants to the pond if you have room.
Can you
post a link to some pics of your pond? I think that if you have to
backwash
daily, you have too heavy a load in your pond. Additionally, backwashing,
especially daily, will not allow beneficial bacteria to colonize your
filter.
Adding a pre-filter with regular maintenance will help prevent the main
filter
from excessive build up of muck.

I dont have your answers but do have a few observations. If you have not
changed your uv bulb that could be part of the problem. If a bigger pump
will 'blow out all the poop', wouldnt that mean it wont catch it in the
future? The LFS is in the business of selling equipment. If you tell them
it's broke it seems reasonable they are going to tell you to fix it with
bigger, better equipment from them. This may not be the case but possibly
you are going to have to deal with 'a mess' to restore the previously
working system to its successful status. If you upsize your pump it does
make some sense that your filter could inadequate for a sustained higher
flow.
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

"gng" wrote in message
...
snips

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter and
UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond.
1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with this?
I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Hi,
Lets start with bigger filters are always better, IMO. Filters don't wear
out they become inadequate. Some mats can wear out because of the wear/tear
of cleaning them but this does not seem to be your problem. Filters don't
work anymore because 1, the fish load increases and overwhelms them. 2, they
are misplaced (sub-gravel) and the pond needs to be 'removed' to clean them.
3, the filter has too much work to do because it was expected to clean all
the stuff in the pond (no filter will clean everything) and is now perhaps
because of pump/pickup placement is overworked, I.E. sucking mulm.
I would take a look at the fish load and if it has significantly increased
pick your favorites and lose the rest. Take a look at the bottom and net or
vacuum it if needed and make this part of your regular maintenance. The new
pump will help the LFS and not you and even if it did 'blow out all the
poop' where is it going to?
Finally if your current filter is too much of a problem to take apart and
clean why get an even bigger problem?
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

"gng" wrote in message
...
I took out most of the plants over the weekend as the fish seemed to need
more room and were hanging at the waterfall. I still have 3 large water
lilly plants left, about 1/3 of the water surface covered.

Could you define pre-filter and perhaps give me a brand name? I use a
basket in front of the filter to stop the algae and misc plant junk.

A prefilter is a filter that is installed on the intake side of the pump. It
catches particles in the water before the water is pumped into the main filter.
Those particles (plant material, loose algae, and suspended solids, fish mess,
etc) are digested in the pre-filter. The water coming from the re-filter is
clearer, and contains much less solids, but still has dissolved organic
nutrients. This water is then pumped into the main filter, where the bacteria
will break down those nutrients, and use them in their digestive process. The
end result is clearer water with less overall nutrients. And the main filter
never gets overwhelmed with muck. My pre-filter is shown at the following link:

http://www.pondexpress.com/detail.aspx?ID=94

My main filter is an old jazucci pool filter, adapted for use in the pond. I
gutted it, drilled a hole in the bottom, inserted a connector through the hole,
and then connected a stainless steel basket strainer to the connector on the
inside, and a 90 degree elbow on the outside. To the elbow I connected another
male connector, then fitted it with a clear rubber hose. The other end of this
hose connects to the pre-filter at the fitting shown in the picture at the link,
above. The prefilter sits on the bottom of the pond, while the main filter sits
beneath my waterfall:


http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/filter/filter.htm (thiese pictures were
taken in spring after the spring algae bloom had cleared up)

Note the clarity of the water. The pre-filter contains a net bag full of small
porous lava rock (about 20 lbs) for biofiltration, and is sitting on top of
plastic thingys to keep it off the bottom, and to allow the muck to settle to
the bottom of the pre-filter, and a course matt filter above that for
mechanical/biological filtration. The water in the pond is 45 inches deep. My
main filter is completely submerged beneath the surface of the water (and
beneath the waterfall, and the pump is mounted inside the main filter housing,
submerged about 15 inches below the water surface. This is a suction system,
instead of a postive pressure system. Either way you do it, your pond will
benefit greatly from the use of a pre-filter. If you have a positive pressure
system, you just have to figure out how to connect the prefilter to the intake.

Now that summer is in full swing, and all normal spring algae blooms are way
behind me, the water stays crystal clear. The only thing I ever clean is the
pre-filter (which I drain and rinse about once every two to three weeks). I
made a hook on the end of an old coat hanger, and just reach down to grab the
pre-filter hose to retrieve the filter from the bottom. The perforated top
screws off, then I set the filter in a tub, pull the hose off, and let the
filter drain. While it is draining, I stir up the water inside the filter and
then pull the foam matt filter out and rinse it, put the whole thing back
together and sink it back to the bottom. The whole process takes about five
minutes. The resulting waste water I use to fertilize the plants in my yard.

And just for kicks, here are some more recent pictures of the pond, the fish,
and some of the plants. I don't have any pictures of the filter, but will post
some whenever I see that it needs maintenance (it's been running for two years
without needing any cleaning or flushing):

http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/pond/pond.htm

I hope this helps.

Oh, and my main filter is half-filled with rounded, course quartz gravel (about
100 lbs), but I understand that porous lava rock works better. Some day I might
change it out, but as of right now, if it ain't broke, I don't fix it. The pump
is rated at about 1300 gph, while my pond is 4'x12' by 45 inches in depth. For
larger ponds, your can simply upscale it. One thing I am about to add is a
small tertiary treatment system: If you look at the last picture of my second
link, note that the water from filter shoots up into a small bird bath bowl at
the top of the waterfall. The bowl is tilted slightly to allow the water to
flow down the rocks in the direction that I want. I'm going to change this. I
have a large clay pot that has two tiers of three holes around the side. plan
to connect the outflow of the filter to the bottom of this pot while it is
sitting in the bowl. The pot will be 3/4 filled with porous lava rock which
will be the final scrub for the water as it fills the pot, the water flowing out
the holes on the side, and cascading into the bowl and down the waterfall. I
also plan to plants some water plants in the pot (Iris at the top, and maybe
some flowering wetland vines, or something (I really haven't decided yet). When
I finish this part, I will post a link to a pitcure of it. I would really like
to get some input of what plants to put in it.

P.S. Some have suggested that I would have a pH crash using quartz in the main
filter, but I don't a problem because the waterfall is made of limestone, and is
partially submerged in the pond. The limestone helps minimize pH crashes. Just
don't let the pump go off (like it did on me a few wekks ago during a really
heavy thunderstorm, which knocked out the power for two days). If it is off for
a substantial amount of time, CO2 will build up in the water, and stress or kill
your fish, and likely kill off the bacteria in the filter. I used an airpump
with an airstone to aerate the water (I used a UPS from my computer, but ran out
of juice after several hours, and had to borrow one from my brother).
Fortunately, the electricity came back on about the time the CO2 was starting to
rise back up. I now have a power inverter that converts 12 volts DC from my car
battery to 120 volts AC, so if it happens again, I'll be ready for it.

" George" wrote in message
.. .

"gng" wrote in message
...
Wow, I have off this ng for a long time. This is Gary from San
Diego/Carlsbad area. To you long timers, I used to go by Wallygator and
AbbeyRoad a long, long time ago. Here is my pond question that I hope
someone can answer.

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter
and UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year. As
the
fish have grown, the filter has clogged and now it is a quite a
challenge to
keep the pond crystal clear. In fact, the pond used to be swimming pool
clear, but is not closer to city park pond - meaning about a foot of
visability.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The
are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond. I totally understand the supersize
concept,
and if cost were no object that is a good solution. But here are my
questions:

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better
flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but
that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with
this? I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Any other advice? Thanks all,

Gary


Add a pre-filter on the intake side of your pump, and clean it out
regularly,
then add a biofilter somewhere on the output side, after the main filter
but
before the waterfall, and add more plants to the pond if you have room.
Can you
post a link to some pics of your pond? I think that if you have to
backwash
daily, you have too heavy a load in your pond. Additionally, backwashing,
especially daily, will not allow beneficial bacteria to colonize your
filter.
Adding a pre-filter with regular maintenance will help prevent the main
filter
from excessive build up of muck.

"gng" wrote in message ...

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter and UV

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond.

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better flow
for the waterfall.

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with this?

I am not an expert, in fact I am pretty new to ponds, but I have been
an aquarium keeper for years. I am also an eBay fan, so beware of my
opinions.

I hate cleaning filters, too, but you have to do it once in a while.
Remember what W.C. Fields said about water, sort of? Instead of
spending $hundreds on a new one, just clean the one you have.
I think the LPS is blowing poop out of someplace, and not with a pump.
It is you money, but if you really want a bigger one, check eBay and
some of the internet houses. I plan on using a Tetra PF1 SUBMERSIBLE
intake filter which will do a lot of prefiltering and has
bio-capacity. The intake is the perforated lid which sits a foot above
the bottom. This might work for you, too. Should take years to plug up
and should be easy to get out and clean. You [and I] will still need
an external filter.
"Just what I think I know"
--
Crashj

Is the filter clogged, or just overwhelmed by too many fish and them
creating too much gunk. If it is overwhelmed, then a larger filter would be
the way to go, and a larger pump should not be needed. If it is clogged, it
may be possible to do a very good cleaning using a shop vac as a blower.
Most of the bead filters have gone to the use of a Jacuzzi type blower to
clean the beads to reduce the amount of water needed to get a good backwash
and be sure the bead pack is broken up. Aqua claims their media is easier
to clean, but with all the compartments, I don't think it would be as easy
as cleaning a sphere. If you take the pump side loose, attach a shop vac in
blower mode, put the filter in backwash mode to lower the water level in the
tank and then put the filter in rinse mode and allow the air to toss the
media around for several minutes, and then place the filter back in backwash
mode to blow all the gunk and the remainder of the water out of the filter
and reconnect the pump and complete the backwash, rinse, and re-backwash, it
may save you from having to take it apart.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"gng" wrote in message
...
Wow, I have off this ng for a long time. This is Gary from San
Diego/Carlsbad area. To you long timers, I used to go by Wallygator and
AbbeyRoad a long, long time ago. Here is my pond question that I hope
someone can answer.

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter and
UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year. As
the
fish have grown, the filter has clogged and now it is a quite a challenge
to
keep the pond crystal clear. In fact, the pond used to be swimming pool
clear, but is not closer to city park pond - meaning about a foot of
visability.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond. I totally understand the supersize concept,
and if cost were no object that is a good solution. But here are my
questions:

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with this?
I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Any other advice? Thanks all,

Gary

Great idea! Thank you everyone. Will let you know what happens. My pond
use to be crystal clear, but too many fish and a couple of years and -
yuck - I am back where I started! I knew I should have insisted on a
supersized filter and pump in the first place.

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:gZhNc.163592$a24.69786@attbi_s03...
Is the filter clogged, or just overwhelmed by too many fish and them
creating too much gunk. If it is overwhelmed, then a larger filter would
be
the way to go, and a larger pump should not be needed. If it is clogged,
it
may be possible to do a very good cleaning using a shop vac as a blower.
Most of the bead filters have gone to the use of a Jacuzzi type blower to
clean the beads to reduce the amount of water needed to get a good
backwash
and be sure the bead pack is broken up. Aqua claims their media is easier
to clean, but with all the compartments, I don't think it would be as easy
as cleaning a sphere. If you take the pump side loose, attach a shop vac
in
blower mode, put the filter in backwash mode to lower the water level in
the
tank and then put the filter in rinse mode and allow the air to toss the
media around for several minutes, and then place the filter back in
backwash
mode to blow all the gunk and the remainder of the water out of the filter
and reconnect the pump and complete the backwash, rinse, and re-backwash,
it
may save you from having to take it apart.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"gng" wrote in message
...
Wow, I have off this ng for a long time. This is Gary from San
Diego/Carlsbad area. To you long timers, I used to go by Wallygator and
AbbeyRoad a long, long time ago. Here is my pond question that I hope
someone can answer.

I have a 2500 gallon pond with Sequence 1/4 hp, and Aqua Ultra filter
and
UV
It was installed a few years back and was wonderful until this year. As
the
fish have grown, the filter has clogged and now it is a quite a
challenge
to
keep the pond crystal clear. In fact, the pond used to be swimming pool
clear, but is not closer to city park pond - meaning about a foot of
visability.

Local pond stores are telling me to upgrade both filter and pump. The
are
recommending the 1/2 hp Sequence 7200 and the larger Aqua filter that is
made for a 4000 gallon pond. I totally understand the supersize
concept,
and if cost were no object that is a good solution. But here are my
questions:

1. I was thinking of just upgrading the pump for now to get better
flow
for the waterfall. Any problems you can see with keeping the existing
"undersized" filter and just backwashing daily?

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but
that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with
this?
I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

Any other advice? Thanks all,

Gary

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 07:43:02 -0700, gng wrote:

2. The current filter is pretty clogged. I could take it apart, but that
is a huge mess. Do you believe the pond store that is telling me that a
1/2hp pump will blow out all the poop and eliminate me mucking with this? I
am trying to avoid taking the filter apart unless I have to.

This guy isn't too happy with his Aqua filter either for the same
reasons

http://www.geocities.com/koifla/About_Me.htm

It sounds as if you would be better taking it apart to clean it
properly and then add a pre-filter to remove the larger debris.

This bubblebead filter
http://www.bubblebeadfilters.co.uk/f...operation.html
has the same problems but at least the manufacturer states that you
must install a pre-filter to remove anything larger than 2mm.

If they did away with the screen on the backflush pipe and put one in
that covered both the inlet and backflush ones it would have a built in
pre-filter. Having separate inlet and backflush pipes does make sense
in this design for the automatic models since it allows the filter to
rinse the beads as it fills, before the automatic backflush valve
closes.

Whatever the design you will always have to strip it down occasionally
to clean the screens because something will always build up on them
eventually.

I don't know the layout of the Aqua filter but could you put a fine
mesh planting basket over the pipes to act as an internal pre-filter
that gets backflushed when you backflush the filter?

Since you've removed the plants you will need to clean the filter
before the solids decompose and the nitrate builds up.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk