Has the Catholic church lost control

Cardinal Bernardin, chairman of the American bishops’ Committee for
Pro-Life Activities, asserts that abortion is a moral wrong and that the
official stand of the church is binding on all Roman Catholics. Again,
Roman Catholic professor of moral theology at Notre Dame University in
the United States, James T. Burtchaell, wrote in 1982: “My argument is
straightforward. Abortion is homicide: the destruction of a child.” Yet,
four years later, priest Richard P. McBrien, chairman of the theology
department of the same university, took pains to explain that abortion
is not a defined doctrine of his church. According to this view,
Catholics who subscribe to abortion cannot be excommunicated, even
though they may be viewed as being disloyal.

On account of this ambiguity of church authority, many prominent
Catholics are outspokenly pro-abortion. Included among them in the
United States are some priests. Also a number of nuns, some of whom
endorsed a controversial abortion newspaper advertisement for which they
were threatened with expulsion from their orders.

Additionally, lay Catholics now form an active pro-abortion lobby. “I am
in the mainstream of Catholic lay thought,” asserted Mrs. Eleanor C.
Smeal, president of NOW, the National Organization for Women, at an
abortion rally in Washington, D.C., U.S.A. At the same time, according
to The New York Times, she mocked the suggestion that her support for
the right to abortion could lead to her excommunication from the Roman
Catholic Church.

The Church of Rome is finding it increasingly difficult to resolve such
conflicting views within its ranks.

Cracklin' wrote:
Cardinal Bernardin, chairman of the American bishops’ Committee for
Pro-Life Activities, asserts that abortion is a moral wrong and that
the official stand of the church is binding on all Roman Catholics.
Again, Roman Catholic professor of moral theology at Notre Dame
University in the United States, James T. Burtchaell, wrote in 1982:
“My argument is straightforward. Abortion is homicide: the
destruction of a child.” Yet, four years later, priest Richard P.
McBrien, chairman of the theology department of the same university,
took pains to explain that abortion is not a defined doctrine of his
church. According to this view, Catholics who subscribe to abortion
cannot be excommunicated, even though they may be viewed as being
disloyal.
On account of this ambiguity of church authority, many prominent
Catholics are outspokenly pro-abortion. Included among them in the
United States are some priests. Also a number of nuns, some of whom
endorsed a controversial abortion newspaper advertisement for which
they were threatened with expulsion from their orders.

Additionally, lay Catholics now form an active pro-abortion lobby. “I
am in the mainstream of Catholic lay thought,” asserted Mrs. Eleanor
C. Smeal, president of NOW, the National Organization for Women, at an
abortion rally in Washington, D.C., U.S.A. At the same time, according
to The New York Times, she mocked the suggestion that her support for
the right to abortion could lead to her excommunication from the Roman
Catholic Church.

The Church of Rome is finding it increasingly difficult to resolve
such conflicting views within its ranks.

That's why you'll never see a pope speak ex-cathedra on such matters. Only
things in the past like the assumption of Mary.
The last time they changed the rules, when they made the Pope rather than a
group infallible there was a schism.

Marriage of priests will be allowed sooner or later and the next moderate to
liberal (relatively speaking) pope will almost certainly approve birth
control in marriage.
Abortion will come along sooner or later.
The RCC has survived by changing and several things you went to hell for
when I was a kid are every day occurrences now. (Or once a week in the case
of meat on Friday)

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:21:20 -0400, Cracklin' wrote:

The Church of Rome is finding it increasingly difficult to resolve such
conflicting views within its ranks.

Not really. We don't need the Church to tell us that a human fetus does not
become a dog.

duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:59:19 GMT, "Mike Painter"

The Church of Rome is finding it increasingly difficult to resolve
such conflicting views within its ranks.

That's why you'll never see a pope speak ex-cathedra on such matters. Only
things in the past like the assumption of Mary.

Very much is an typical mikey error mode. Ex-cathedra is for matters not
clearly defined in scripture. If you had attended a Catholic school, you'd know
that, mikey.

The last time they changed the rules, when they made the Pope rather than a
group infallible there was a schism.

The rules have never changed. When was the last schism?

But I forget - you never were a Catholic, so you wouldn't know.

Marriage of priests will be allowed sooner or later and the next moderate to
liberal (relatively speaking) pope will almost certainly approve birth
control in marriage.

Don't hold your breath.

Abortion will come along sooner or later.

Never on this one. It's directly contrary to God's word. The only way to
approve this one is to find another name for this failed church.

The RCC has survived by changing and several things you went to hell for
when I was a kid are every day occurrences now. (Or once a week in the case
of meat on Friday)

Required act of penance, but no dogma.


duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

"Cracklin'" wrote in message
...
Cardinal Bernardin, chairman of the American bishops’ Committee for
Pro-Life Activities, asserts that abortion is a moral wrong and that the
official stand of the church is binding on all Roman Catholics. Again,
Roman Catholic professor of moral theology at Notre Dame University in the
United States, James T. Burtchaell, wrote in 1982: “My argument is
straightforward. Abortion is homicide: the destruction of a child.” Yet,
four years later, priest Richard P. McBrien, chairman of the theology
department of the same university, took pains to explain that abortion is
not a defined doctrine of his church. According to this view, Catholics
who subscribe to abortion cannot be excommunicated, even though they may
be viewed as being disloyal.

McBrien is a liberal priest - he has no power outside of the ministerial
duties. He's free to babble in academia all he wants, though.


On account of this ambiguity of church authority, many prominent Catholics
are outspokenly pro-abortion. Included among them in the United States are
some priests. Also a number of nuns, some of whom endorsed a controversial
abortion newspaper advertisement for which they were threatened with
expulsion from their orders.

A small, small, minority - politicians for the most part. Just a bunch of
hogwash.

BAM

JMJ

"Cracklin'" wrote in message

Cardinal Bernardin, chairman of the American bishops' Committee for
Pro-Life Activities, asserts that abortion is a moral wrong and that the
official stand of the church is binding on all Roman Catholics. Again,
Roman Catholic professor of moral theology at Notre Dame University in
the United States, James T. Burtchaell, wrote in 1982: "My argument is
straightforward. Abortion is homicide: the destruction of a child." Yet,
four years later, priest Richard P. McBrien, chairman of the theology
department of the same university, took pains to explain that abortion
is not a defined doctrine of his church. According to this view,
Catholics who subscribe to abortion cannot be excommunicated, even
though they may be viewed as being disloyal.


"The 1983 Code of Canon Law" contains the
following provision with regards to abortion:

Title VI

snip

Can. 1398 -- A person who procures a successful
abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae)
excommunication.

[The Latin original reads: Can. 1398 -- Qui
abortum procurat, effectu secuto, in
excommunicationem latae sententiae incurrit.]

snip

Jim Carew sfo

in article , duke at
wrote on 7/26/05 6:21 PM:

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:59:19 GMT, "Mike Painter"

The Church of Rome is finding it increasingly difficult to resolve
such conflicting views within its ranks.

That's why you'll never see a pope speak ex-cathedra on such matters. Only
things in the past like the assumption of Mary.

Very much is an typical mikey error mode. Ex-cathedra is for matters not
clearly defined in scripture. If you had attended a Catholic school, you'd
know
that, mikey.

The last time they changed the rules, when they made the Pope rather than a
group infallible there was a schism.

The rules have never changed. When was the last schism?

But I forget - you never were a Catholic, so you wouldn't know.

Marriage of priests will be allowed sooner or later and the next moderate to
liberal (relatively speaking) pope will almost certainly approve birth
control in marriage.

Don't hold your breath.

Abortion will come along sooner or later.

Never on this one. It's directly contrary to God's word. The only way to
approve this one is to find another name for this failed church.

The RCC has survived by changing and several things you went to hell for
when I was a kid are every day occurrences now. (Or once a week in the case
of meat on Friday)

Required act of penance, but no dogma.




The church will never me, since I don't aspire to the fetid and
festing pile of dog vomit it calls "eternal reward"...


Paul

duke wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:59:19 GMT, "Mike Painter"


The Church of Rome is finding it increasingly difficult to resolve
such conflicting views within its ranks.

That's why you'll never see a pope speak ex-cathedra on such
matters. Only things in the past like the assumption of Mary.

Very much is an typical mikey error mode. Ex-cathedra is for matters
not clearly defined in scripture. If you had attended a Catholic
school, you'd know that, mikey.

You still have a chance to be $5,000.00 richer if you are right and have
the courage of your conviction.
The cowardly little man will not take the offer.

The last time they changed the rules, when they made the Pope rather
than a group infallible there was a schism.

The rules have never changed. When was the last schism?

This has been pointed ou to you any number of times. The last major one was
in 1871 when the pope declared that he was infalliable instead of the
magisterium.


But I forget - you never were a Catholic, so you wouldn't know

Marriage of priests will be allowed sooner or later and the next
moderate to liberal (relatively speaking) pope will almost certainly
approve birth control in marriage.

Don't hold your breath.
I don't have to, it is alreadly allowed in some parts of the world.

Abortion will come along sooner or later.

Never on this one. It's directly contrary to God's word. The only
way to approve this one is to find another name for this failed
church.

They said the same thing about touching the host.



The RCC has survived by changing and several things you went to hell
for when I was a kid are every day occurrences now. (Or once a week
in the case of meat on Friday)

Required act of penance, but no dogma.

Meat on Friday and touching the host were mortal sins.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:25:42 -0400, Paul Duca wrote:

The RCC has survived by changing and several things you went to hell for
when I was a kid are every day occurrences now. (Or once a week in the case
of meat on Friday)

Required act of penance, but no dogma.

The church will never me, since I don't aspire to the fetid and
festing pile of dog vomit it calls "eternal reward"...
Paul

Your funeral.

duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:39:39 GMT, "Mike Painter"
wrote:

You still have a chance to be $5,000.00 richer if you are right and have
the courage of your conviction.
The cowardly little man will not take the offer.

You had your chance. Too bad you were too paranoid about following thru.

The last time they changed the rules, when they made the Pope rather
than a group infallible there was a schism.
The rules have never changed. When was the last schism?

This has been pointed ou to you any number of times. The last major one was
in 1871 when the pope declared that he was infalliable instead of the
magisterium.

Schism?

Marriage of priests will be allowed sooner or later and the next
moderate to liberal (relatively speaking) pope will almost certainly
approve birth control in marriage.

Don't hold your breath.
I don't have to, it is alreadly allowed in some parts of the world.

Nope.

Abortion will come along sooner or later.

Never on this one. It's directly contrary to God's word. The only
way to approve this one is to find another name for this failed
church.
They said the same thing about touching the host.

Not dogma.

The RCC has survived by changing and several things you went to hell
for when I was a kid are every day occurrences now. (Or once a week
in the case of meat on Friday)
Required act of penance, but no dogma.
Meat on Friday and touching the host were mortal sins.

Neither dogma.


duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****