Kh/Ph/Ca lesson please

Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri

My guess is that your test kits are to blaim. What brand of test kits do you
use? How old are they? Try testing water with some other kits before you do
any attempt to fix the problem.
Did you test freshly made sal****er? What are the readings?
The problem could also be that you've bought bad batch of salt.

Many answers you can find by reading the articles in www.reefkeeping.com and
going through past issues. Here is one link that could answer some of your
questions http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php


Mislav

"Yuriy Krushelnytskiy" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri

Mislav,

I use 3 different brands (faulty test kit was my first suspicion):
Aquarium Pharm, Red Sea and Mardel (test strips).
Calcium and Phosphate are the only ones without backup since those are
the only ones local LFSs stock.

I didn't test freshly mixed water recently, but 2-3 day old water
tests OK - Ph 9.2-8.3, Ca - 500, KH - 12 dKH

Also, thanks for the link. The article was is very good.


Thank you
Yuri

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:47:56 +0200, "Mislav" wrote:

My guess is that your test kits are to blaim. What brand of test kits do you
use? How old are they? Try testing water with some other kits before you do
any attempt to fix the problem.
Did you test freshly made sal****er? What are the readings?
The problem could also be that you've bought bad batch of salt.

Many answers you can find by reading the articles in www.reefkeeping.com and
going through past issues. Here is one link that could answer some of your
questions http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php


Mislav

"Yuriy Krushelnytskiy" wrote in message
.. .
Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri

The problem is Oceanic Salt. I used it for 9 months, and could not get
my Calcium level down where it belonged. It ended up killing many of my
SPS corals, and I stopped using it finally.

My tank showed improvement when I went back to Kent Sea Salt, but then
PO4 and NO3 have both been giving me grief. I finally got PO4 under
control after months of hard work, but I only found out last night my
NO3 is sky-high -- my test kit was giving me false readings all this
time. *sigh* Now I'm working on that, so I can finally have gorgeous
corals again.

Marc


Yuriy Krushelnytskiy wrote:
Mislav,

I use 3 different brands (faulty test kit was my first suspicion):
Aquarium Pharm, Red Sea and Mardel (test strips).
Calcium and Phosphate are the only ones without backup since those are
the only ones local LFSs stock.

I didn't test freshly mixed water recently, but 2-3 day old water
tests OK - Ph 9.2-8.3, Ca - 500, KH - 12 dKH

Also, thanks for the link. The article was is very good.


Thank you
Yuri

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:47:56 +0200, "Mislav" wrote:


My guess is that your test kits are to blaim. What brand of test kits do you
use? How old are they? Try testing water with some other kits before you do
any attempt to fix the problem.
Did you test freshly made sal****er? What are the readings?
The problem could also be that you've bought bad batch of salt.

Many answers you can find by reading the articles in www.reefkeeping.com and
going through past issues. Here is one link that could answer some of your
questions http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php


Mislav

"Yuriy Krushelnytskiy" wrote in message
. ..

Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri





--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

Mark,
thank you for the reply.

Is Instant Ocean any good?

Also, I'd hate to do massive water changes, and 5%s are probably not
going to make a big difference any time soon. Is there a safe KH
buffer I can use to stabilize KH and Ca?

Off topic:
Cudos on you web page.
It was one of the first pages I read since starting in the hobby and
it was VERY helpful, especially critter IS and sun coral info

Best regards
Yuri



On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 06:13:29 GMT, Marc Levenson
wrote:

The problem is Oceanic Salt. I used it for 9 months, and could not get
my Calcium level down where it belonged. It ended up killing many of my
SPS corals, and I stopped using it finally.

My tank showed improvement when I went back to Kent Sea Salt, but then
PO4 and NO3 have both been giving me grief. I finally got PO4 under
control after months of hard work, but I only found out last night my
NO3 is sky-high -- my test kit was giving me false readings all this
time. *sigh* Now I'm working on that, so I can finally have gorgeous
corals again.

Marc


Yuriy Krushelnytskiy wrote:
Mislav,

I use 3 different brands (faulty test kit was my first suspicion):
Aquarium Pharm, Red Sea and Mardel (test strips).
Calcium and Phosphate are the only ones without backup since those are
the only ones local LFSs stock.

I didn't test freshly mixed water recently, but 2-3 day old water
tests OK - Ph 9.2-8.3, Ca - 500, KH - 12 dKH

Also, thanks for the link. The article was is very good.


Thank you
Yuri

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:47:56 +0200, "Mislav" wrote:


My guess is that your test kits are to blaim. What brand of test kits do you
use? How old are they? Try testing water with some other kits before you do
any attempt to fix the problem.
Did you test freshly made sal****er? What are the readings?
The problem could also be that you've bought bad batch of salt.

Many answers you can find by reading the articles in www.reefkeeping.com and
going through past issues. Here is one link that could answer some of your
questions http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php


Mislav

"Yuriy Krushelnytskiy" wrote in message
...

Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri

Many people use IO salt. I prefer Kent Sea Salt, and as long as you
match salinity precisely and temperature within 1 degree, you can do a
huge water change and not affect your livestock. I changed 20g in a 29g
today, 4g in a 2g Pico tank yesterday, and 40g in my 280g reef this
evening.

Since your numbers are so high, there is nothing to stabilize. Just do
the water changes and don't add any buffers of any kind and the numbers
will come down again. My 2g Pico has great readings and all I do is
water changes. I don't have any type of filter on that tank at all, and
alk / ca were perfect when I tested two days ago.

I'm glad my site has helped you. It is updated often. Newest update
was my power panel: http://www.melevsreef.com/power_panel.html

Marc


Yuriy Krushelnytskiy wrote:
Mark,
thank you for the reply.

Is Instant Ocean any good?

Also, I'd hate to do massive water changes, and 5%s are probably not
going to make a big difference any time soon. Is there a safe KH
buffer I can use to stabilize KH and Ca?

Off topic:
Cudos on you web page.
It was one of the first pages I read since starting in the hobby and
it was VERY helpful, especially critter IS and sun coral info

Best regards
Yuri



On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 06:13:29 GMT, Marc Levenson
wrote:


The problem is Oceanic Salt. I used it for 9 months, and could not get
my Calcium level down where it belonged. It ended up killing many of my
SPS corals, and I stopped using it finally.

My tank showed improvement when I went back to Kent Sea Salt, but then
PO4 and NO3 have both been giving me grief. I finally got PO4 under
control after months of hard work, but I only found out last night my
NO3 is sky-high -- my test kit was giving me false readings all this
time. *sigh* Now I'm working on that, so I can finally have gorgeous
corals again.

Marc


Yuriy Krushelnytskiy wrote:

Mislav,

I use 3 different brands (faulty test kit was my first suspicion):
Aquarium Pharm, Red Sea and Mardel (test strips).
Calcium and Phosphate are the only ones without backup since those are
the only ones local LFSs stock.

I didn't test freshly mixed water recently, but 2-3 day old water
tests OK - Ph 9.2-8.3, Ca - 500, KH - 12 dKH

Also, thanks for the link. The article was is very good.


Thank you
Yuri

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:47:56 +0200, "Mislav" wrote:



My guess is that your test kits are to blaim. What brand of test kits do you
use? How old are they? Try testing water with some other kits before you do
any attempt to fix the problem.
Did you test freshly made sal****er? What are the readings?
The problem could also be that you've bought bad batch of salt.

Many answers you can find by reading the articles in www.reefkeeping.com and
going through past issues. Here is one link that could answer some of your
questions http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php


Mislav

"Yuriy Krushelnytskiy" wrote in message
m...


Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri





--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

Mark,
I picket up a bag of Kent Sea Salt and put a down payment towards used
5-stage RO/DI unit (will be considerable upgrade from my DIY DI
system).
Hopefully I'll be able to do some serious water changes without
serious consequences this saturday..
I might also get a refractometer to be able to match salinity little
better than with hydrometer calibrated for 70F

I did some test on fresh sal****er and calcium is in 420-430 ppm
range.



Thank you for your help

Yuriy


On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:05:24 GMT, Marc Levenson
wrote:

Many people use IO salt. I prefer Kent Sea Salt, and as long as you
match salinity precisely and temperature within 1 degree, you can do a
huge water change and not affect your livestock. I changed 20g in a 29g
today, 4g in a 2g Pico tank yesterday, and 40g in my 280g reef this
evening.

Since your numbers are so high, there is nothing to stabilize. Just do
the water changes and don't add any buffers of any kind and the numbers
will come down again. My 2g Pico has great readings and all I do is
water changes. I don't have any type of filter on that tank at all, and
alk / ca were perfect when I tested two days ago.

I'm glad my site has helped you. It is updated often. Newest update
was my power panel: http://www.melevsreef.com/power_panel.html

Marc


Yuriy Krushelnytskiy wrote:
Mark,
thank you for the reply.

Is Instant Ocean any good?

Also, I'd hate to do massive water changes, and 5%s are probably not
going to make a big difference any time soon. Is there a safe KH
buffer I can use to stabilize KH and Ca?

Off topic:
Cudos on you web page.
It was one of the first pages I read since starting in the hobby and
it was VERY helpful, especially critter IS and sun coral info

Best regards
Yuri



On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 06:13:29 GMT, Marc Levenson
wrote:


The problem is Oceanic Salt. I used it for 9 months, and could not get
my Calcium level down where it belonged. It ended up killing many of my
SPS corals, and I stopped using it finally.

My tank showed improvement when I went back to Kent Sea Salt, but then
PO4 and NO3 have both been giving me grief. I finally got PO4 under
control after months of hard work, but I only found out last night my
NO3 is sky-high -- my test kit was giving me false readings all this
time. *sigh* Now I'm working on that, so I can finally have gorgeous
corals again.

Marc


Yuriy Krushelnytskiy wrote:

Mislav,

I use 3 different brands (faulty test kit was my first suspicion):
Aquarium Pharm, Red Sea and Mardel (test strips).
Calcium and Phosphate are the only ones without backup since those are
the only ones local LFSs stock.

I didn't test freshly mixed water recently, but 2-3 day old water
tests OK - Ph 9.2-8.3, Ca - 500, KH - 12 dKH

Also, thanks for the link. The article was is very good.


Thank you
Yuri

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:47:56 +0200, "Mislav" wrote:



My guess is that your test kits are to blaim. What brand of test kits do you
use? How old are they? Try testing water with some other kits before you do
any attempt to fix the problem.
Did you test freshly made sal****er? What are the readings?
The problem could also be that you've bought bad batch of salt.

Many answers you can find by reading the articles in www.reefkeeping.com and
going through past issues. Here is one link that could answer some of your
questions http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php


Mislav

"Yuriy Krushelnytskiy" wrote in message
om...


Hello,

I ma fairly new to the hobby (reef keeping) and probably need good
chemistry lesson: I am having some issues with my water parameters - I
can not get my Ph/Alk/Ca to balance right.

Test results are as follows.
kH - 10 dKh (average between 6 samples)
Ca - 600
Ph 7.6 -8.0 (using 3 different kits)

Phosphates - not detectable (used to be .25 about a month ago)
Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate - not detectable (3 different kits)

The tank is 90 usg + 30 usg sump/refugium.
I have no filters other than Euroreef protein skimmer.
~150 lbs live rock (20% Fiji, 20% Tonga, 60% cultured Florida) and 3
inch sand bed
I am using Oceanic sea salt, which I think is high in Calcium and
Magnesium, but I still have no idea how did I get my chemistry that
messed up. I am not dosing any additives, not even Kalkwasser. The
tank is on auto top-off from RO/DI. In addition I was doing 5% per day
water changes for last 10 days.

I even had my Ro/DI water tested "by professionals" and it is fine.

Besides normal tests I did an experiment by measuring Ph straight from
the tank and from a sample that was vigorously aerated and results
were within 0.1 apart (i did 6 measurements on each sample to
average), so I don't think there is Co2 issue...

My LFS suggested using an array of buffers/magic potions to "fix the
tank", but if at all possible i'd like to correct the problem in some
natural way.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Also, what are good sources of information on the net?

Best regards
Yuri