I lost 2 clown loaches

I lost 2 clown loaches yesterday. They were both new to the tank... about 2 weeks old....2" in size. I have plenty of rock set up for cover, several plants and other fish in the tank. The loaches were the only ones Affected. Temp stays at 78-80 with under gravel and top filters and a 7 ph. After reading several threads here... I removed all carbon from filters and treated the tank with "Quick Cure" at about 1/2 required dose. Both loaches went into an immediate frenzy for about 2-3 minutes...it seemed like i poisoned them... swimming and shuddering all over the tank. Then they laid about with very little movement but seemed to be breathing fine... gills were moving.. and upright. I found them both dead this morning. Could it have been something other then "ick”? Looked like ick, acted like ick, but treatment had a very bad effect. Any Ideas before I replace these loaches???? AGAIN no other fish were affected.

Thanks
I guess I'm not the #1 daddy anymore.

Mid posted.


"nmbr1ddy" wrote in message
...

I lost 2 clown loaches yesterday. They were both new to the tank...
about 2 weeks old....2" in size. I have plenty of rock set up for
cover, several plants and other fish in the tank. The loaches were the
only ones Affected. Temp stays at 78-80 with under gravel and top
filters and a 7 ph. After reading several threads here... I removed all
carbon from filters and treated the tank with "Quick Cure" at about 1/2
required dose. Both loaches went into an immediate frenzy for about 2-3
minutes...it seemed like i poisoned them... swimming and shuddering all
over the tank. Then they laid about with very little movement but
seemed to be breathing fine... gills were moving.. and upright. I found
them both dead this morning. Could it have been something other then
"ick"? Looked like ick, acted like ick, but treatment had a very bad
effect. Any Ideas before I replace these loaches????

You used full strength anti-ich medicine on clown loaches and no other fish
were effected because the medicine is only mean't to be used at full
strength on decent sized scaled fish. Clown loaches have no scales so these
medicines effect them badly, you need to give them half dose for a longer
period of time. Any experts care to chime in? Later!

AGAIN no other
fish were affected.

Thanks
I guess I'm not the #1 daddy anymore.


--
nmbr1ddy

From the bottle:

Warnings: DO NOT use on Baby Whales, Elephant Nose, Shrimps, Snails, living
rock or invertebrates. For aquarium use only. Keep out of the reach of
children. Do not use on fish intended for human consumption. Not for human
or drug use. Do not exceed recommended dosage. May stain silicone sealant.
If swallowed, seek medical attention immediately and take product label with
you. This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to
cause cancer.



These warnings go for clown loaches also, since they are scaleless. Always
ask and expert before using a medication.

Daniel Morrow wrote:
Mid posted.


"nmbr1ddy" wrote in message
...


snip
After reading several threads here... I removed all
carbon from filters and treated the tank with "Quick Cure" at about 1/2
required dose.


You used full strength anti-ich medicine on clown loaches and no other fish
were effected because the medicine is only mean't to be used at full
strength on decent sized scaled fish. Clown loaches have no scales so these
medicines effect them badly, you need to give them half dose for a longer
period of time. Any experts care to chime in? Later!


He used half the recommended dose, not the full strength.

coolchinchilla

nmbr1ddy wrote:
I lost 2 clown loaches yesterday.

I'm so sorry about your clown loaches. It's so hard to lose any
fish. I'm glad you cared about them.

coolchinchilla

Daniel Morrow wrote:
Mid posted.


"nmbr1ddy" wrote in message
...

I lost 2 clown loaches yesterday. They were both new to the tank...
about 2 weeks old....2" in size. I have plenty of rock set up for
cover, several plants and other fish in the tank. The loaches were the
only ones Affected. Temp stays at 78-80 with under gravel and top
filters and a 7 ph. After reading several threads here... I removed all
carbon from filters and treated the tank with "Quick Cure" at about 1/2
required dose. Both loaches went into an immediate frenzy for about 2-3
minutes...it seemed like i poisoned them... swimming and shuddering all
over the tank. Then they laid about with very little movement but
seemed to be breathing fine... gills were moving.. and upright. I found
them both dead this morning. Could it have been something other then
"ick"? Looked like ick, acted like ick, but treatment had a very bad
effect. Any Ideas before I replace these loaches????


You used full strength anti-ich medicine on clown loaches and no other fish
were effected because the medicine is only mean't to be used at full
strength on decent sized scaled fish. Clown loaches have no scales so these
medicines effect them badly, you need to give them half dose for a longer
period of time. Any experts care to chime in? Later!

AGAIN no other

fish were affected.

Thanks
I guess I'm not the #1 daddy anymore.


--
nmbr1ddy



My server dropped the original post, so I'm replying here.

I'm sorry you lost your fish. Half strength Quick Cure should not have
killed your clowns like that unless something else was wrong. It
strikes me as odd that it took the ich two weeks to appear. Ich can
live invisibly in the gills of fish, so one possibility is that the
fish's gills have been infected for the whole two weeks (and maybe
longer) and appropriate medicine was too much stress. Was there ammonia
or nitrite in the water? Copper or other medicines? Plenty of surface
turbulance or aeration?

Before you replace the loaches, give the tank two more weeks to be sure
ich doesn't show up on any of your other fish. Monitor ammonia,
nitrite, pH, and temperature as you have been, and do a couple of water
changes to be sure nitrates are low. Above all, watch your fish for the
early signs of ich, heavy gilling and "flashing" - rubbing against
decorations. Don't panic and treat - healthy fish can fight off ich -
but take it as a sign to wait longer before you add fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Originally Posted by Elaine T

Daniel Morrow wrote:
Mid posted.


"nmbr1ddy" wrote in message
...

I lost 2 clown loaches yesterday. They were both new to the tank...
about 2 weeks old....2" in size. I have plenty of rock set up for
cover, several plants and other fish in the tank. The loaches were the
only ones Affected. Temp stays at 78-80 with under gravel and top
filters and a 7 ph. After reading several threads here... I removed all
carbon from filters and treated the tank with "Quick Cure" at about 1/2
required dose. Both loaches went into an immediate frenzy for about 2-3
minutes...it seemed like i poisoned them... swimming and shuddering all
over the tank. Then they laid about with very little movement but
seemed to be breathing fine... gills were moving.. and upright. I found
them both dead this morning. Could it have been something other then
"ick"? Looked like ick, acted like ick, but treatment had a very bad
effect. Any Ideas before I replace these loaches????


You used full strength anti-ich medicine on clown loaches and no other fish
were effected because the medicine is only mean't to be used at full
strength on decent sized scaled fish. Clown loaches have no scales so these
medicines effect them badly, you need to give them half dose for a longer
period of time. Any experts care to chime in? Later!

AGAIN no other

fish were affected.

Thanks
I guess I'm not the #1 daddy anymore.


--
nmbr1ddy



My server dropped the original post, so I'm replying here.

I'm sorry you lost your fish. Half strength Quick Cure should not have
killed your clowns like that unless something else was wrong. It
strikes me as odd that it took the ich two weeks to appear. Ich can
live invisibly in the gills of fish, so one possibility is that the
fish's gills have been infected for the whole two weeks (and maybe
longer) and appropriate medicine was too much stress. Was there ammonia
or nitrite in the water? Copper or other medicines? Plenty of surface
turbulance or aeration?

Before you replace the loaches, give the tank two more weeks to be sure
ich doesn't show up on any of your other fish. Monitor ammonia,
nitrite, pH, and temperature as you have been, and do a couple of water
changes to be sure nitrates are low. Above all, watch your fish for the
early signs of ich, heavy gilling and "flashing" - rubbing against
decorations. Don't panic and treat - healthy fish can fight off ich -
but take it as a sign to wait longer before you add fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

I was so happy to have the clown loaches I had watched them closely. I tested regularly and again once I saw the spots. All tests were in the ok or safe range ph7.2-7.8, hardness between 75-150 closer to 75, nitrate(n03) 0 and nitrite (no2) at .05 or less. The spots appeared overnight.Only change to routine was hikari algae wafers for 2 days prior to spots. When I applied the quick cure it was at about half strength diluted in a quart of the water change. That's why I was wondering if it was something other than "ICK" and if so how should I treat the whole tank before replacing Clowns. I have added the quick cure again after 48hrs with water change, and will do so wednesday as well. Again... No other fish affected.

Thank you all for your replies.

Originally Posted by nmbr1ddy

I was so happy to have the clown loaches I had watched them closely. I tested regularly and again once I saw the spots. All tests were in the ok or safe range ph7.2-7.8, hardness between 75-150 closer to 75, nitrate(n03) 0 and nitrite (no2) at .05 or less. The spots appeared overnight.Only change to routine was hikari algae wafers for 2 days prior to spots. When I applied the quick cure it was at about half strength diluted in a quart of the water change. That's why I was wondering if it was something other than "ICK" and if so how should I treat the whole tank before replacing Clowns. I have added the quick cure again after 48hrs with water change, and will do so wednesday as well. Again... No other fish affected.

Thank you all for your replies.

I have planty of filtration with both top and undergravel filters.

Thanks again

nmbr1ddy wrote:

I was so happy to have the clown loaches I had watched them closely. I
tested regularly and again once I saw the spots. All tests were in the
ok or safe range ph7.2-7.8, hardness between 75-150 closer to 75,
nitrate(n03) 0 and nitrite (no2) at .05 or less. The spots appeared
overnight.Only change to routine was hikari algae wafers for 2 days
prior to spots. When I applied the quick cure it was at about half
strength diluted in a quart of the water change. That's why I was
wondering if it was something other than "ICK" and if so how should I
treat the whole tank before replacing Clowns. I have added the quick
cure again after 48hrs with water change, and will do so wednesday as
well. Again... No other fish affected.

Thank you all for your replies.


Change water and treat again Saturday so the Quick Cure is in the water
for a full week. Add fresh carbon back the following Monday. Wait a
minimum of another week before getting more clowns to be sure spots
don't appear on any other fish. Two or three weeks is a safer, more
conservative approach. An even better choice would be to quarantine the
loaches so you can treat anything that crops up without exposing your
display tank.

I'm still bewildered as to why half strength Quick Cure killed your
clowns when I've seen so many clowns do fine with it. Your water seems
fine, although the pH is fluctuating more than I prefer. Perhaps you
had a particularly aggressive strain of ich that stressed the loaches
more than what I've seen. Velvet is another parasitic disease that
causes white spots. However, velvet usually looks more like a dusting
of golden power than neat, pure white salt grains.

If you get ich on your next batch of loaches, try gradually raising the
water temperature to 86F and feeding generously with high-protein foods
to strengthen the fish. Be sure you're using a filter with a return
that agitates the water surface or run an airstone becaue the very warm
water carries little oxygen. 86F is a high enough temperature to kill
most strains of ich, and most tropical fish can tolerate it. My tanks
have been hitting 88F lately and my fish aren't having any trouble at
all. You can raise the temperature over a day or two, but it's good to
lower it again more slowly.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Originally Posted by Elaine T

nmbr1ddy wrote:

I was so happy to have the clown loaches I had watched them closely. I
tested regularly and again once I saw the spots. All tests were in the
ok or safe range ph7.2-7.8, hardness between 75-150 closer to 75,
nitrate(n03) 0 and nitrite (no2) at .05 or less. The spots appeared
overnight.Only change to routine was hikari algae wafers for 2 days
prior to spots. When I applied the quick cure it was at about half
strength diluted in a quart of the water change. That's why I was
wondering if it was something other than "ICK" and if so how should I
treat the whole tank before replacing Clowns. I have added the quick
cure again after 48hrs with water change, and will do so wednesday as
well. Again... No other fish affected.

Thank you all for your replies.


Change water and treat again Saturday so the Quick Cure is in the water
for a full week. Add fresh carbon back the following Monday. Wait a
minimum of another week before getting more clowns to be sure spots
don't appear on any other fish. Two or three weeks is a safer, more
conservative approach. An even better choice would be to quarantine the
loaches so you can treat anything that crops up without exposing your
display tank.

I'm still bewildered as to why half strength Quick Cure killed your
clowns when I've seen so many clowns do fine with it. Your water seems
fine, although the pH is fluctuating more than I prefer. Perhaps you
had a particularly aggressive strain of ich that stressed the loaches
more than what I've seen. Velvet is another parasitic disease that
causes white spots. However, velvet usually looks more like a dusting
of golden power than neat, pure white salt grains.

If you get ich on your next batch of loaches, try gradually raising the
water temperature to 86F and feeding generously with high-protein foods
to strengthen the fish. Be sure you're using a filter with a return
that agitates the water surface or run an airstone becaue the very warm
water carries little oxygen. 86F is a high enough temperature to kill
most strains of ich, and most tropical fish can tolerate it. My tanks
have been hitting 88F lately and my fish aren't having any trouble at
all. You can raise the temperature over a day or two, but it's good to
lower it again more slowly.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Since treating the tank i have had trouble getting my alkilinty up, Any Ideas