What are your major bug bears about you LFS

OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
any ideas as to how matters could improve....

Thanks
Gill

Gill Passman wrote:
OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
any ideas as to how matters could improve....

Thanks
Gill

Well, there is (was??) a small aquarium shop in this town where the
proprietor and his wife smoked heavily behind the counter. They did have
some healthy fish and I bought rasboras there long ago.

One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death;
I assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or
so. This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to
see - an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad
for business, no doubt.

I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this group).

It's a true story. Top that, anyone?

Steve

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
the major complaints....please don't name the places right now - we don't
want any lawsuits but let's get an overall picture of what we feel is
wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at ways to address it....even
if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

# My biggest bugaboo are the stores that hire clueless people who either
give no advice and ask no questions when someone buys a pet (fish, bird,
hamster whatever) or give wrong information. These employees and employers
either just don't care or they don't know anything about the creatures
they're selling. You can't get worse than claiming you can put 1/2 a dozen
goldfish in a 10 gallon tank or 2 in a small 1/2 gallon bowl. :-( I wont
mention the name of the store where I overheard these two statements.

So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with any
ideas as to how matters could improve....

# I think there would be *some* improvements if everyone would seek out the
store manager or owner and B*TCH like crazy every time they saw abuse.

Thanks
Gill
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Gill Passman wrote:
OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
any ideas as to how matters could improve....

Thanks
Gill

Of course the main things are poor conditions for the creatures and
bogus, poor or non existant information about the critters they have
and sell.

There are too many instances of poor informaiton I have heard being
given by employees and the customer taking it all in as if were facts

Some of the most ignornorant info I have heard from pet shop employees:

*Bettas live in tiny mudd puddles. They prefer small spaces.
*They would DIE if put into filtered tanks.
*They would DIE if put into anything larger than an Ivy bowl.
*They can never be housed with any other fish or they will shred or
kill the other fish.
*You can fit 4 Oscars in a 20gH. (customer..won't they grow too large
for that?)..They only grow to the size of the tank.
*1" of fish per gallon of water is the stocking rule.
*Fish only grow to the size of the tank
*Stuning a fish doens't really harm them, it just makes them smaller.
*Goldfish can live in fish bowls.
* Sure, you could house about 4 Goldfish in that 3G Eclipse.
*You can keep Goldfish and Tropicals in the same tank. They're all
happy, so it's fine.
*If it wasn't fine to house Bettas in those tiny, fancy containers then
they wouldn't make them.
*As long as it's labeled "African Cichlid" you can keep them together.
*Pronouncing Betta "bait-uh" instead of "bet-uh".
*Sure...you could buy all these fish for that size tank in your cart.
*Female Bettas are colorless and ugly.
*Angelfish are mean, nasty fish.
*African Clawed Frogs are perfectly fine to go into your 10g tank. No,
it won't hurt your Guppies.
*Sure, I'll bag that Clownfish for your son's bowl.
*No, Chinese algae eaters do not get mean and won't harm your fish.
That's a myth.
*No, it's only male Bettas that are aggressive.
*Ah, it's just a fish. It's not like it's a dog or cat.

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
the major complaints....please don't name the places right now - we don't
want any lawsuits but let's get an overall picture of what we feel is
wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at ways to address it....even
if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with any
ideas as to how matters could improve....

Thanks
Gill


I am very lucky to have 2 really good LFS in Luton, Beds, UK. One even keeps
single male bettas in plants or tanks if appropiate with other fish...no
nasty death cups at all. I can get live bloodworm, daphnia and brineshrimp
at the weekend. Their advice is very good at the start, but perhaps with the
internet we learn more about certain fish as we go along. I recently went to
a large superstore which was opening, and an angel from there was in water
with high nitrite and nitrate. I only tested the water as it was out of town
and perhaps a different Ph. It is great for supplies but they have more sad,
dead fish in their tanks than my local ones. Of course they have a huge
variety compared with local ones, but are they as well? I had 4 angels and
she was my 5th. She has died after a few weeks, I expect from the water she
was in. My others are from local breeders, not flown half way round the
world, and are nearly 2 years old, so I must be doing something ok. It was
very sad to loose her, as she was very pretty, but never left quarantine.
The huge superstore was probably still cycling their tanks and it's
unfortunate for the first fish they get, but probably ok now at it was
earlier this year. My 10 clowns have come from both local shops, all happy
and well, so they must be really good LFS. One looks a really nice shop, but
one looks less attractive as a shop, but their fish are just as healthy and
well cared for. Mary

"Gill Passman" wrote...
OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
the major complaints.... [...]

the sixteen year-old kid that knows more about aquaria in his whole two
weeks of working part-time than everyone here combined.

Tedd Jacobs wrote:
"Gill Passman" wrote...

OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
the major complaints.... [...]


the sixteen year-old kid that knows more about aquaria in his whole two
weeks of working part-time than everyone here combined.


Like one store here, nobody over I'll give them credit and say 18. most
fish were stuck to the filter intake screens eather dead or dieing in
about 100 fish I'd say 10 looked heathy if thats wat you call it. Never
went back!

One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death; I
assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or so.
This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to see -
an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad for
business, no doubt.

I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this group).

I guess I don't see any problem with this. Goldfish are often sold as
feeders and I certainly sacrificed enough of them to big oscars back when a
friend had them. Of course the oscars just took them whole and didn't nibble
them to death like the piranha probably did. When you raise carnivorous
critters, you often need to feed them live meat. I've fed many live rabbits
and mice to snakes and birds of prey as well. My children are well
acquainted with the circle of life.

--
John Goulden
mostly goldies, guppies, swordtails and bettas

John D. Goulden wrote:
One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death; I
assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or so.
This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to see -
an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad for
business, no doubt.

I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this group).


I guess I don't see any problem with this. Goldfish are often sold as
feeders and I certainly sacrificed enough of them to big oscars back when a
friend had them. Of course the oscars just took them whole and didn't nibble
them to death like the piranha probably did. When you raise carnivorous
critters, you often need to feed them live meat. I've fed many live rabbits
and mice to snakes and birds of prey as well. My children are well
acquainted with the circle of life.

It is a fact of life that some fish eat other fish...most humans eat
fish and meat....

Your choice is to educate your children in the facts of life...ie.
animals eat other animals...but you can and would want to do that
yourself...my kids know that the cat goes out and kills mice, rats and
birds and once a grass snake shoved on the bed of my son when he was
only 5. They best learn this in an environment that we as parents
control. You don't really want others forcing this on them when you are
not prepared...

Having this forced upon a young child in what you are hoping will be a
nice, pleasant journey to look at the nice fishies is another thing. I
know damn well that my LFS will empty the pretty tank with the mollie
and platy fry he had today into the tank that has his Oscar and maybe
his rays....he doesn't do it when any customers are there....he does
feed them sure but with what we could class as sanatised food such as
frozen mussels and fish that are dead and frozen already....

Personally, I still feel sick when I find a dead fish in my tank that
has been gnawed at by it's companions - latest example was a headless
platy....if my kids had seen it at home I could control the situation
and explain...if I walked into a shop with the kids and saw it with a
fish being eaten alive the situation would be much harder. The trip to
the shop is not in my eyes an education into the true harsh realities of
nature....this is something we do through discussion and our own
experiences - my cat kills a bird - I can explain....my fish kill
another fish I can explain....trip to a shop were an animal is killing
another I don't have the environment to deal with the initial distress
even though I can explain when I get home.

I think that we all agree that certain fish need live food - even if it
is other fish. But there is no need to put this on display to children
(and some more squeemish adults) without warning. Doing this at home you
are doing it in a controlled environment where the children can gain an
understanding of what nature is and you are there to comfort and explain...

JMO
Gill

I personally have dealt with this a number of times already with my girls. I
was able to explain just fine in the fish store. Children aren't stupid. You
just explain it like it is & they will understand. You don't need to be in a
special location , under special conditions, with certain lighting & mood
music. What would you like the stores to do 5 minute checks on their tanks
to be sure no fish has died. Maybe put a sign at the front door stating

"WARNING LIVE CREATURES IN SIDE THAT MAY DISPLAY NATURAL BEHAVIOR" maybe put
a rating system on each tank like movies & games so you know before hand
what the odds of seeing something a little gross.

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
John D. Goulden wrote:
One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death;
I assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or
so. This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to
see - an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad
for business, no doubt.

I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this
group).


I guess I don't see any problem with this. Goldfish are often sold as
feeders and I certainly sacrificed enough of them to big oscars back when
a friend had them. Of course the oscars just took them whole and didn't
nibble them to death like the piranha probably did. When you raise
carnivorous critters, you often need to feed them live meat. I've fed
many live rabbits and mice to snakes and birds of prey as well. My
children are well acquainted with the circle of life.

It is a fact of life that some fish eat other fish...most humans eat fish
and meat....

Your choice is to educate your children in the facts of life...ie. animals
eat other animals...but you can and would want to do that yourself...my
kids know that the cat goes out and kills mice, rats and birds and once a
grass snake shoved on the bed of my son when he was only 5. They best
learn this in an environment that we as parents control. You don't really
want others forcing this on them when you are not prepared...

Having this forced upon a young child in what you are hoping will be a
nice, pleasant journey to look at the nice fishies is another thing. I
know damn well that my LFS will empty the pretty tank with the mollie and
platy fry he had today into the tank that has his Oscar and maybe his
rays....he doesn't do it when any customers are there....he does feed them
sure but with what we could class as sanatised food such as frozen mussels
and fish that are dead and frozen already....

Personally, I still feel sick when I find a dead fish in my tank that has
been gnawed at by it's companions - latest example was a headless
platy....if my kids had seen it at home I could control the situation and
explain...if I walked into a shop with the kids and saw it with a fish
being eaten alive the situation would be much harder. The trip to the shop
is not in my eyes an education into the true harsh realities of
nature....this is something we do through discussion and our own
experiences - my cat kills a bird - I can explain....my fish kill another
fish I can explain....trip to a shop were an animal is killing another I
don't have the environment to deal with the initial distress even though I
can explain when I get home.

I think that we all agree that certain fish need live food - even if it is
other fish. But there is no need to put this on display to children (and
some more squeemish adults) without warning. Doing this at home you are
doing it in a controlled environment where the children can gain an
understanding of what nature is and you are there to comfort and
explain...

JMO
Gill