fish gulping problem

Hi,
I have a 3 foot long tank with 8 small goldfish in 2 to 3 inches long. They
have been very happy for the past 2 years but are all on the bottom of the
tank now gulping. They have become very lathargic and just gulp. This has
been going on for about 3 days. I changed about 25 percent of the water
about a week ago and the filter stopped working for a couple of days so the
water wasn't being oxiginated. I have got it going again now and it has been
running for 24 hours but the fish haven't improved. I am getting worried
now. What could be the problem?
Thanks
Lenny

I have just noticed that they have a matt sheen instead of the usual shiny
scales too. This is all over them and a consistent look.

"lenny" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a 3 foot long tank with 8 small goldfish in 2 to 3 inches long.
They have been very happy for the past 2 years but are all on the bottom
of the tank now gulping. They have become very lathargic and just gulp.
This has been going on for about 3 days. I changed about 25 percent of the
water about a week ago and the filter stopped working for a couple of days
so the water wasn't being oxiginated. I have got it going again now and it
has been running for 24 hours but the fish haven't improved. I am getting
worried now. What could be the problem?
Thanks
Lenny

lenny wrote:
I have just noticed that they have a matt sheen instead of the usual shiny
scales too. This is all over them and a consistent look.

"lenny" wrote in message
...

Hi,
I have a 3 foot long tank with 8 small goldfish in 2 to 3 inches long.
They have been very happy for the past 2 years but are all on the bottom
of the tank now gulping. They have become very lathargic and just gulp.
This has been going on for about 3 days. I changed about 25 percent of the
water about a week ago and the filter stopped working for a couple of days
so the water wasn't being oxiginated. I have got it going again now and it
has been running for 24 hours but the fish haven't improved. I am getting
worried now. What could be the problem?
Thanks
Lenny





1. Your fish may be starting to outgrow your aquarium, especially if the
length you quote is the body length not counting fins.

2. It sounds like a water quality problem, at least in part. Start doing
those 25 percent water changes daily for a few days. Actually, try 40
percent daily for a few days. That will effectively change most of your
water. Please remember to use dechlorinator with your make-up water.

3. Clean the filter in a bucket of aquarium water. Keep the existing
media because you need the helpful bacteria they contain - to assist
water quality.

3. You'll get advice about adding salt or stronger medications. I don't
know enough about medications and don't trust them much. Improving the
water quality quickly should perhaps be higher/ equal priority to trying
to medicate. Salt is probably ok, providing you don't have plants.

the lack of clean water has stressed the fish. the filter should not be the primary
source of oxygenation. the stressed fish now have some kind of disease.
Check water parameters including ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH and temperature.
change water until the nitrates are less than 20 ppm and the rest are 0
Add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a
few days. Use rock salt with no additives.
see if they perk up
they should shed their slime coat. if they are still matt, do a salt dip on the fish
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...tm#SALT%20DIPS

"lenny" wrote:

I have just noticed that they have a matt sheen instead of the usual shiny
scales too. This is all over them and a consistent look.

"lenny" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a 3 foot long tank with 8 small goldfish in 2 to 3 inches long.
They have been very happy for the past 2 years but are all on the bottom
of the tank now gulping. They have become very lathargic and just gulp.
This has been going on for about 3 days. I changed about 25 percent of the
water about a week ago and the filter stopped working for a couple of days
so the water wasn't being oxiginated. I have got it going again now and it
has been running for 24 hours but the fish haven't improved. I am getting
worried now. What could be the problem?
Thanks
Lenny





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

thanks for the advice. I have taken the fish out of the tank already because
they were not getting any better and I was afraid that tthey wouldn't
survive the night. I placed them into a bucket and a small tank and they are
still alive 20 hours later so that is a good start. I will change some of
the water now and treat with salt and see what happens.
Thanks again.
Lenny


wrote in message
...
the lack of clean water has stressed the fish. the filter should not be
the primary
source of oxygenation. the stressed fish now have some kind of disease.
Check water parameters including ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH and
temperature.
change water until the nitrates are less than 20 ppm and the rest are 0
Add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per
5 over a
few days. Use rock salt with no additives.
see if they perk up
they should shed their slime coat. if they are still matt, do a salt dip
on the fish
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...tm#SALT%20DIPS

"lenny" wrote:

I have just noticed that they have a matt sheen instead of the usual shiny
scales too. This is all over them and a consistent look.

"lenny" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a 3 foot long tank with 8 small goldfish in 2 to 3 inches long.
They have been very happy for the past 2 years but are all on the bottom
of the tank now gulping. They have become very lathargic and just gulp.
This has been going on for about 3 days. I changed about 25 percent of
the
water about a week ago and the filter stopped working for a couple of
days
so the water wasn't being oxiginated. I have got it going again now and
it
has been running for 24 hours but the fish haven't improved. I am
getting
worried now. What could be the problem?
Thanks
Lenny





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up:
http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:01:19 +0100, "lenny"
wrote:

thanks for the advice. I have taken the fish out of the tank already because
they were not getting any better and I was afraid that tthey wouldn't
survive the night. I placed them into a bucket and a small tank and they are
still alive 20 hours later so that is a good start. I will change some of
the water now and treat with salt and see what happens.
Thanks again.
Lenny

Be very careful. If there is no or inadequate filtration in these
small quarantine containers Ammonia can jump quickly. My experience
is that injured/sick fish are very sensative to water quality. Water
needs to be pristine or at least as safe as possible to heal. Don't
do anything that is harsh or stressful while they are weak.

It certainly can't hurt to try the tub to tub treatment with some salt
& NovAqua. Use AmmolockII or Amquel for ammonia. You still have to
monitor Ammonia though. If the water is not fully aged carefully
match temperatures.

Good luck

exactly.
tub to tub
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...htm#TUB_TO_TUB
be SURE to have good aeration.

there are times when a tank simply goes "toxic". dont know why but fish are wobbling
or dying and the best thing is move them out to fresh oxygenated tank or tub of water
and then clean the old tank out, strip it down completely and sponge a lot of
hydrogen peroxide around. then refill with fresh water.
CHANGE ALL THE WATER in tanks where fish have died. do 3 days of tub to tub before
putting them back. Ingrid

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:01:19 +0100, "lenny"
thanks for the advice. I have taken the fish out of the tank already because
they were not getting any better and I was afraid that tthey wouldn't
survive the night. I placed them into a bucket and a small tank and they are
still alive 20 hours later so that is a good start. I will change some of
the water now and treat with salt and see what happens.
Thanks again.
Lenny

Jolly Fisherman wrote:
Be very careful. If there is no or inadequate filtration in these
small quarantine containers Ammonia can jump quickly. My experience
is that injured/sick fish are very sensative to water quality. Water
needs to be pristine or at least as safe as possible to heal. Don't
do anything that is harsh or stressful while they are weak.

It certainly can't hurt to try the tub to tub treatment with some salt
& NovAqua. Use AmmolockII or Amquel for ammonia. You still have to
monitor Ammonia though. If the water is not fully aged carefully
match temperatures.

Good luck



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

The only thing I want to add is that when fish are very sick and weak
and consequently crashing on the bottom, they can have difficulty with
the current generated by an airstone on the bottom of a small
container. One can create a weaker current by mounting the airstone
higher up on the wall of the container. The same thing can be
accomplished by bleeding off some of the air, but that also reduces
surface agitation. Basically one just has to adjust things based on
how it looks.

The environment has to be as stress free & pristine as possible to
heal. Currents in small containers can be stressful. I find
sometimes also reducing room light is calming.

Just another $0.02

right. better circulation and the fish rest comfortably right under a stone 1-2
inches up off the bottom of the tank.
now strong powerheads or filter flow can be a problem.
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman wrote:

The only thing I want to add is that when fish are very sick and weak
and consequently crashing on the bottom, they can have difficulty with
the current generated by an airstone on the bottom of a small
container. One can create a weaker current by mounting the airstone
higher up on the wall of the container. The same thing can be
accomplished by bleeding off some of the air, but that also reduces
surface agitation. Basically one just has to adjust things based on
how it looks.

The environment has to be as stress free & pristine as possible to
heal. Currents in small containers can be stressful. I find
sometimes also reducing room light is calming.

Just another $0.02



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

As mentioned before, I put the fish into a serperate tub and I have now
cleaned the tank completly, all the water and washed the stones. I tiped it
onto its side outside and gave it a good hose down. I refilled the tank and
left it 24 hours to settle. Placed the fish back into the tank (they were
still not looking too good) and within 5 or 6 hours they have all stopped
gulping air fron the top of the water and are starting to look better with a
bit of rumaging along the bottom. I gave them a feed after 24 hours and as
far as I can see most of them ate so that is a good sign.

There is only one fish worrying me at the moment. He was the one who looked
in the worst state before spending most of the day gulping on the top. That
fish still looks a little bit lathargic and the colour is a little dull but
he isn't gulping on the top or sitting on the bottom so I will give it a
couple of days and see what happens I think. Possibly the salt dip will
help.

Thanks for all the fantastic help given on this forum! Because of it 8 fish
are still alive.

Cheers
Lenny


wrote in message
...
right. better circulation and the fish rest comfortably right under a
stone 1-2
inches up off the bottom of the tank.
now strong powerheads or filter flow can be a problem.
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman wrote:

The only thing I want to add is that when fish are very sick and weak
and consequently crashing on the bottom, they can have difficulty with
the current generated by an airstone on the bottom of a small
container. One can create a weaker current by mounting the airstone
higher up on the wall of the container. The same thing can be
accomplished by bleeding off some of the air, but that also reduces
surface agitation. Basically one just has to adjust things based on
how it looks.

The environment has to be as stress free & pristine as possible to
heal. Currents in small containers can be stressful. I find
sometimes also reducing room light is calming.

Just another $0.02



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up:
http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan