UV Sterlizer

I have a 75G fish only sal****er tank that if I had to guess has about
30 pound of live rock. Right now its on a really light bio-load with
two Marineland filters: Emperor 400 and a canister 350. What size and
brand/type of UV sterlizer should I get? I was thinking of a unit to
hang off the back of the tank with its own pump or run the return half
of the water from the 350 that goes out the nozzle and not the
bio-wheels through it. I'm thinking that 25 watts is a fair size to use
with a flow rate in the high 200s to mid 300s GPH...

Thanks,
Jeff

I think you should pass on the UV if you don't have a protein skimmer.
Do you have one ?

"buff82driver" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a 75G fish only sal****er tank that if I had to guess has about
30 pound of live rock. Right now its on a really light bio-load with
two Marineland filters: Emperor 400 and a canister 350. What size and
brand/type of UV sterlizer should I get? I was thinking of a unit to
hang off the back of the tank with its own pump or run the return half
of the water from the 350 that goes out the nozzle and not the
bio-wheels through it. I'm thinking that 25 watts is a fair size to use
with a flow rate in the high 200s to mid 300s GPH...

Thanks,
Jeff

"buff82driver" wrote in message oups.com...
I have a 75G fish only sal****er tank that if I had to guess has about
30 pound of live rock. Right now its on a really light bio-load with
two Marineland filters: Emperor 400 and a canister 350. What size and
brand/type of UV sterlizer should I get? I was thinking of a unit to
hang off the back of the tank with its own pump or run the return half
of the water from the 350 that goes out the nozzle and not the
bio-wheels through it. I'm thinking that 25 watts is a fair size to use
with a flow rate in the high 200s to mid 300s GPH...

Any "fish only" tank with live rock and small bio-load should be
treated as far as filtration goes as a reef tank. This means that
the majority of water filtration should be done in the live rock...
You can use mechanical filters like you have mentioned but
you need to treat them as mechanical filters only, and do not let
them build up organic gunk there because this turns into a nitrates
factory... Any such filter should be cleaned several times a week
to remove all organic waste caught in the filter...

Processing of ammonia and nitrites will be done in the live rock.
To help with the amount of organic compounds dissolved in water
befoer they need to be break out to nitrates in the live rock you
can use skimmer. Skimmer removes proteins from water BEFORE
bacteria gets to them and converts them into phosphates/nitrates.

Also, opinions about using UV sterilizers in aquariums are divided
and my opinion is: it is not needed. Fish are pretty hardy when
taken good care for, well fed and not stressed and they can
defend themselves from many diseases making UV useless.
Even if you do not have corals and strong lights try to benefit
from "reef-like" enviroment in your tank: a lot of live rock will
host a large population of beneficial worms, snails, crustaceans
which in turn help managing waste created by fish, like in the ocean.
UV lamp in a natural aproach to a reef tank is simply a waste of money.

This is an advice from the reef tank owner point of view...
If you want to know more from a fish-only setup owners perspective
you might want to visit another newsgroup dedicated to
non-reef setups: news:rec.aquaria.marine.misc

Good luck!

Pszemol wrote:

I have a 75G fish only sal****er tank that if I had to guess has about
30 pound of live rock. Right now its on a really light bio-load with
two Marineland filters: Emperor 400 and a canister 350. What size and
brand/type of UV sterlizer should I get? I was thinking of a unit to
hang off the back of the tank with its own pump or run the return half
of the water from the 350 that goes out the nozzle and not the
bio-wheels through it. I'm thinking that 25 watts is a fair size to use
with a flow rate in the high 200s to mid 300s GPH...

I beleive UVs are an essential part of Marine fish and Reef keeping, in
fact in our service route, we will not accept a contract for marine
maintenance without a UV sterilizer. The above points are ALL valid,
but you have to remember that an aquarium is not or will not be the
ocean. IT IS a closed system. Via Aqua makes a skimmer/ UV combination
that is excellent for your size aquarium. Also contact time is
important, not wattage. I have been building a custom 15 watt UV for
years (that my customers swear by) that will work well with a Magnum or
as a hang on the back application. One point is, unless you have CLEAN
metal halide lights, with nothing between them and your water, you are
not duplicating the ocean.
I have a blog about UV sterilizers that go into depth about how and why
they work.
http://aquariumuvsterilizer.blogspot.com/

Carl
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...terilizer.html
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...tiSkimmer.html

"carlrs" wrote in message oups.com...
I beleive UVs are an essential part of Marine fish and Reef keeping,
in fact in our service route, we will not accept a contract for marine
maintenance without a UV sterilizer. The above points are ALL valid,
but you have to remember that an aquarium is not or will not be the
ocean. IT IS a closed system.

And why do we need UV sterilizer ?
Why would I want to *sterilize* my water in the tank ?

I want the water in my system to be as live as possible!
I am NOT interested in killing planktonic animals or algae
in the water column. Opposit is true: I want to encourage
the growth of planktonic life forms in my tank because they
become food items for corals, fish, filter-feeding invertebrates
like sponges, feather dusters, clams, sea cucumbers, etc.

One point is, unless you have CLEAN metal halide lights, with nothing
between them and your water, you are not duplicating the ocean.

There are thousands of reef tanks out there without UV sterilizers.
They are doing perfectly fine... Why would they need one ?

I have a blog about UV sterilizers that go into depth about
how and why they work.

The question is "why do you want to make your reef tank water dead?"

Pszemol wrote:

I want the water in my system to be as live as possible!
I am NOT interested in killing planktonic animals or algae
in the water column. Opposit is true: I want to encourage
the growth of planktonic life forms in my tank because they
become food items for corals, fish, filter-feeding invertebrates
like sponges, feather dusters, clams, sea cucumbers, etc.

Prpoerly managed, a UV sterilizer does not render a marine tank
sterile. A timer is often used, also most of these life forms are not
passed thru the sterilizer in a healty aquarium. Again. a metal halide
also performs some sterilization, and is considered neccesary by many
to duplicate the ocean as close as possible.

There are thousands of reef tanks out there without UV sterilizers.
They are doing perfectly fine... Why would they need one ?

Good point, you can have a sucessful reef aquarium without one
(although I question the outcome of a fish aquarium), but the
sterilizer helps improve the odds of a new reef tank in particular. As
the reef aquarium ages, the time the sterilizer is on is less.

Carl
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/

"carlrs" wrote in message ups.com...
Prpoerly managed, a UV sterilizer does not render a marine tank
sterile. A timer is often used, also most of these life forms are not
passed thru the sterilizer in a healty aquarium.

How can you prevent "these life forms" passing through your sterilizer?

How can UV sterilizer work in a selective way killing only disease
causing inverts/bacteria and not kill beneficial ones?

How can you justify UV sterilizer on a timer, and then expect it will
have any role in disease prevention ?

Again. a metal halide also performs some sterilization, and is considered
neccesary by many to duplicate the ocean as close as possible.

This is the first time over so many years in this hobby I hear from you
that people use metal halide lamps to sterilize water in their tanks,
to duplicate the ocean...

Are you 100% sure you know what are you talking about?

Can you quote *anybody* recomending the usage of metal halide
lamps without UV protection filters in marine aquaria? I do not
know any person doing this. All metal halide lamps used over the
marine tanks HAVE UV PROTECTION to block harmfull radiation
type "C" allowing only bands "A" and limited "B" to pass through.
Corals and any other life forms using UV light are tuned to
bands "A" na "B", not to the germicidal band "C". Band "C"
is *very harmfull* and that is why it is used to sterilize water used
in medical purpose or bilogical labs, medical rooms, etc.
That is why UV sterilizers have the bulb enclosed in the not transparent
case - otherwise it would make more harm than good to your own eyes,
skin, plants in the room. The Planet Earth also has UV filter in the
upper atmosphere - you have probably heard of the ozon layer -
this is our protection against killer effects of UV band C radiation.
Yes, most of band A and limited band B UV rays are reaching
the surface of the Earth and travel through water, but it is not band C!

There are thousands of reef tanks out there without UV sterilizers.
They are doing perfectly fine... Why would they need one ?

Good point, you can have a sucessful reef aquarium without one

Than why do you force your clients to use UV sterilizers ?

(although I question the outcome of a fish aquarium), but the
sterilizer helps improve the odds of a new reef tank in particular.
As the reef aquarium ages, the time the sterilizer is on is less.

Why do you have it at all ? This is not selective device, when it
is on it kills almost ALL LIFE FORMS PASSING THROUGH it
without checking if the animal or algae is beneficial or not...
It is simply not needed especially in a fresh tank, where there
are limited amounts of planktonic forms and you are more
interested in encouraging their growth than in a mature tank
where planktonic organisms are well established already...

If you keep an artificial, sterile fish tank with dead rock and fish only,
than you can use UV sterilizer - if you really believe it helps.
You do not have proper algae nutrition export in place in such
tank so high nitrates and phosphates could cause green water
outbreaks, and then UV lamp can be doing some good...
You would be doing better than you convert such tank to FOWLR.

But in a natural aproach to a FOWLR/REEF tanks, the UV lamp
is simply unnecessary cost you simply waste your money on.

Pszemol wrote:
How can you prevent "these life forms" passing through your sterilizer?
How can UV sterilizer work in a selective way killing only disease
causing inverts/bacteria and not kill beneficial ones?
How can you justify UV sterilizer on a timer, and then expect it will
have any role in disease prevention ?
This is the first time over so many years in this hobby I hear from you
that people use metal halide lamps to sterilize water in their tanks,
to duplicate the ocean...

Are you 100% sure you know what are you talking about?

[1]The timer is used to allow certain feeding times
[2]On a new aquaria I recommend continuous operation, especially when
new fauna are added
[3]Yes metal halide only emit A & B uv, and I am not advocating their
use as a sterilizerer, only that UV B DOES have damaging properties to
organic substances.
[4] I have been maintaining sucessfull reef aquariums for 27 years,
with and without UVs, with fauna reproducing.
[5] In the maintenance business, most of my customers overfeed, do not
purchase fauna carefully (I generally provided them with their sealife,
but many couldn't resist other purchases), and in general ran a higher
risk of disease introduction, as they are not experts, like I assume
you are. By running th UV continuously and then later in cycles
corresponding to feeding schedules, I helped minimize disease
introduction
[6] UVs are not a cure all, and in fact do very little to kill multi
cell organisms, and even larger protozoa.
[7] The final half of your statement, although true, was never stated
by me.

Carl

I think you are both missing 1 important point.
It doesn't sound like buff82...has a protein skimmer
which IS undoubtedly a heck of a lot more important than UV.

Not to mention the fact that canister filters are not meant for marine type
applications.

Chris




"carlrs" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pszemol wrote:
How can you prevent "these life forms" passing through your sterilizer?
How can UV sterilizer work in a selective way killing only disease
causing inverts/bacteria and not kill beneficial ones?
How can you justify UV sterilizer on a timer, and then expect it will
have any role in disease prevention ?
This is the first time over so many years in this hobby I hear from you
that people use metal halide lamps to sterilize water in their tanks,
to duplicate the ocean...

Are you 100% sure you know what are you talking about?

[1]The timer is used to allow certain feeding times
[2]On a new aquaria I recommend continuous operation, especially when
new fauna are added
[3]Yes metal halide only emit A & B uv, and I am not advocating their
use as a sterilizerer, only that UV B DOES have damaging properties to
organic substances.
[4] I have been maintaining sucessfull reef aquariums for 27 years,
with and without UVs, with fauna reproducing.
[5] In the maintenance business, most of my customers overfeed, do not
purchase fauna carefully (I generally provided them with their sealife,
but many couldn't resist other purchases), and in general ran a higher
risk of disease introduction, as they are not experts, like I assume
you are. By running th UV continuously and then later in cycles
corresponding to feeding schedules, I helped minimize disease
introduction
[6] UVs are not a cure all, and in fact do very little to kill multi
cell organisms, and even larger protozoa.
[7] The final half of your statement, although true, was never stated
by me.

Carl

"TheRock" wrote in message news:AxZXf.1455$te1.92@trndny03...
I think you are both missing 1 important point.
It doesn't sound like buff82...has a protein skimmer
which IS undoubtedly a heck of a lot more important than UV.

Totally agree, but it was already said in this thread,
so I do not see reason for repeating same thing...

Not to mention the fact that canister filters
are not meant for marine type applications.

Marine applications - well, it is a too broad statement.

If you consider a old-fashioned marine FO tank, with
a graveyard of bleached, dead coral skeletons as so
called "decorations", without live rock or undergravel
filter, than the usage of canister filters is needed
the same way as it is needed in freshwater tanks.
Both types of tanks (freshwater with no plants and
marine fish-only, no or very little LiveRock) need
mechanical and biological filtration to cope with
ammonia and nitrites, shortly called nitrification.
Power filters (HOB or canister) are used for this...