Solaris LED and seagrass

Hi, I am setting up a 22 inch tall temperate seahorse and seagrass
tank. I was worried about te heat from the MH lights and planned on
getting a chiller. If the LED's would be acceptable for the grasses,
they would be much cooler, and I could buy a smaller chiller (I still
plan to get a chiller even if I use the LEDs, because if the air
conditioner goes out, it gets awful hot in GA.)



Would this light setup be strong enough for the sea grasses?


Thanks,
Elizabeth

You don't need high intensity lighting for seahorses.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Elizabeth Davis wrote on 7/17/2006 9:52 AM:
Hi, I am setting up a 22 inch tall temperate seahorse and seagrass
tank. I was worried about te heat from the MH lights and planned on
getting a chiller. If the LED's would be acceptable for the grasses,
they would be much cooler, and I could buy a smaller chiller (I still
plan to get a chiller even if I use the LEDs, because if the air
conditioner goes out, it gets awful hot in GA.)



Would this light setup be strong enough for the sea grasses?


Thanks,
Elizabeth

"Elizabeth Davis" wrote in message ...
Would this light setup be strong enough for the sea grasses?

But what exactly "light setup" do you have on mind ?
You do not mention how strong is the light you want to buy...

I have never kept seagrasses, but judging by the way
they grow in shallow water in tropical areas, they like
strong illumination...

Hi, the light setup is the solaris LED
www:solarisled.com
I need the light for the sea grasses W ayne, not for the sea horses.
Elizabeth

(Elizabeth Davis) wrote in news:12761-44BC88A2-1561
@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net:

Hi, the light setup is the solaris LED
www:solarisled.com
I need the light for the sea grasses W ayne, not for the sea horses.
Elizabeth


Hi Elizabeth,

From your cited website:
"Scheduled to ship August 15, 2006"


You're going to have a hard time getting an evaluation from usenet members
on a light system that isn't yet commercially available. If you're worried
about the energy output of this system, wait for independent reviews of
this new tech to come out. I use LED sources in the course of my job (non
aquatic), and while they certainly could be made intense enough to grow
corals, no one has any experience with them. Sorry, I think you're off the
edge of the map with this product...

Regards
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver

"Elizabeth Davis" wrote in message ...
Hi, the light setup is the solaris LED
www.solarisled.com

If this is true what they say about PAR output than
it should be ok for seagrasses... as is good for corals.
Acording to the manufacturer it produces more light
than 250W MH. I wonder what is the true spectrum
of the light and if it truly lasts 50 000 hours...

"Pszemol" wrote in
:

"Elizabeth Davis" wrote in message
...
Hi, the light setup is the solaris LED
www.solarisled.com

If this is true what they say about PAR output than
it should be ok for seagrasses... as is good for corals.
Acording to the manufacturer it produces more light
than 250W MH. I wonder what is the true spectrum
of the light and if it truly lasts 50 000 hours...


I cannot confirm the PAR or the equivalent lighting output, but the
50,000 hours service time is fairly accurate for LEDs. Note, these may
not have any replaceable parts. Once you reach the end of the lifetime
of the LEDs, the whole fixture will no longer be of use (or, having it
factory reconditioned for another 50,000 hours may come at a cost
closely approaching that of a new LED system).
LEDs will fail in a "full off" manner, meaning unlike the spectral
decay you experience with MH or HO bulbs, you'll get the full power of
the LEDs rught up until the day they die. This is both good and bad.
Good, in that you'll get very consistent light, and an incredibly long
service lifetime. Bad, in that some day when the lights _do_ fail,
you'll have to scurry around for an interim lighting solution, whilst
waiting for your replacement/ reconditioned LED (note, 50,000 hours at
16 hours lighting per day, means you'll have this problem once every 8.5
years, on average.)

Claims of low heat output from hese systems are accurate. The load
demand on a chiller may be significantly reduced.

Spectrum of output is another matter. IME, LEDs emit in very narrow
bands of output, but different band emission LEDs can be "ganged"
together in a single fixture to approximate the spectral output of a
conventional bulb. Does it get close enough to sunlight to make your
corals happy? I'd want empirical evidence to that point, across a broad
range of species, before I'd shell out the extra money for this system,
(and they currently look to be about 2x to 5x more expensive than other
aquarium lighting fixtures . MSRP on 20K 48 inch system; $2325.00, MSRP
on the 72 inch system; $3344 Ouch! Still, for 8.5 _years_ of steady,
bulb-free lighting...).

Again, all of my experience with LEDs comes from industrial use (I work
in an industry which uses UV light to help make chemical reactions
happen; http://www.radtech.org The LED I borrow my experience from is
this one; http://www.phoseon.com/documentation/PHO_RX_Firefly.pdf) , so
this experience may not apply directly to this product.

Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver

"Pszemol" wrote in :

"atomweaver" wrote in message
...
I cannot confirm the PAR or the equivalent lighting output, but the
50,000 hours service time is fairly accurate for LEDs.

I would guess it will depend on the type of the LED,
and on the condition it is used at (overcurrent, temperature).
We had already a precedence where some moon-lights were
worn prematurelly (less than a year) due to the manufacturer
supplying them with cheapo, unreagulated power supply driving
them at or above their maximal tolerable current values.
Yes, they were very bright, but they did not last long...


Sure. Poor engineering can _always_ overcome the most robust components
:-)

LEDs will fail in a "full off" manner, meaning unlike the spectral
decay you experience with MH or HO bulbs, you'll get the full power
of the LEDs rught up until the day they die. This is both good and
bad. Good, in that you'll get very consistent light, and an
incredibly long service lifetime. Bad, in that some day when the
lights _do_ fail, you'll have to scurry around for an interim
lighting solution, whilst waiting for your replacement/ reconditioned
LED (note, 50,000 hours at 16 hours lighting per day, means you'll
have this problem once every 8.5 years, on average.)

There are many different LED technologies and we do not know
what type of LED are used in this fixture. I have seen already
white LED made with the similar principle white fluorescent
tubes are made: native LED spectrum is UV and the LED lenses
are covered with white phosphors, re-emiting white light when
they receive UV rays from the LED. I could only expect the same
kind of decay of light spectrum and similar longevity with
this kind of LEDs.

You caught me! I assumed from the claim of 50,000 hours that this was a
visible specrum semiconductor light array, assembled without the use of
lenses (which, as you say, will degrade just like bulbs). Such would be
the only tech I'm aware of which could make the claim of 50K hours of
steady output. Still, its an assumption I shouldn't have made...

Assuming a white LED is made on a different principle of mixing
base colors to get white effect - with at least three different
color LED chips inside one "bulb" I could not imagine how can
you get properly spread light spectrum to imitate sun-light...
You would rather get light with three or four (depending on
number of led chips colors per bulb) peaks in the spectrum and
not spread spectrum like incadescent or good HQI/MH fixtures give...


I'd expect something more like 15-60 different selected wavelengths of
output, and thus a more complete spectrum.

Claims of low heat output from hese systems are accurate.
The load demand on a chiller may be significantly reduced.

Do you have any access to the efficiency of LED light data ?
Do they really produce more light per Watt of electricity used than MH
?

I know from direct experience how efficient they are in terms of an
energy source for pushing industrial chemical reactions. Spectrum of
output is much narrower than a standard bulb, but if the catalyst you
want to have run your reaction happens to be efficient at absorbing
light in the wavelength of output of the LED, then Yes, the LED source
is much more efficient, watt for watt. Same goes for visible light,
although the light fixtures are vastly too expensive at this point to be
reasonable for replacing typical flourescent fixtures for human use
(althoguh I don't doubt that they'll be the standard at some point in
the future, if they can get their costs down).
Being an industrial chemist, I don't know nearly enough about the
active absorption wavelengths used photosynthesis to make that same
assesssment of these lights for use in reef aquariums. The vendor claim
of 178 PAR vs. 133 for a 250W MH source is a starting point, but that
kind of measurement could be an inaccurate means of assessing an LED
source.

DZ

All of the data you guys see on these lights is true. I know that for fact. Soon Sanjay
will be coming out with an article on these lights, PAR and SED plots, etc.. That is all I
can say for now :-)

A good friend of mine is an electrical lighting engineer, who designs such a lighting
systems, who has built his own with similar results and comments. I have his unpublished
very, very, technical article explain it all, which may appear in one of our on-line reef
magazines; the array, type of LED's circuit designs, power supplies, outputs, cost, etc.

Solairs has been working on this lighting system for 2 years. I have had phone
conversations with the owner. TRA III has some discussions on advanced lighting system in
the works and reef lighting systems of the future, to include LED's. LED's are the future
of reef lighting.

--
Boomer

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
http://www.coralrealm.com



"atomweaver" wrote in message
...
: "Pszemol" wrote in :
:
: "atomweaver" wrote in message
: ...
: I cannot confirm the PAR or the equivalent lighting output, but the
: 50,000 hours service time is fairly accurate for LEDs.
:
: I would guess it will depend on the type of the LED,
: and on the condition it is used at (overcurrent, temperature).
: We had already a precedence where some moon-lights were
: worn prematurelly (less than a year) due to the manufacturer
: supplying them with cheapo, unreagulated power supply driving
: them at or above their maximal tolerable current values.
: Yes, they were very bright, but they did not last long...
:
:
: Sure. Poor engineering can _always_ overcome the most robust components
::-)
:
: LEDs will fail in a "full off" manner, meaning unlike the spectral
: decay you experience with MH or HO bulbs, you'll get the full power
: of the LEDs rught up until the day they die. This is both good and
: bad. Good, in that you'll get very consistent light, and an
: incredibly long service lifetime. Bad, in that some day when the
: lights _do_ fail, you'll have to scurry around for an interim
: lighting solution, whilst waiting for your replacement/ reconditioned
: LED (note, 50,000 hours at 16 hours lighting per day, means you'll
: have this problem once every 8.5 years, on average.)
:
: There are many different LED technologies and we do not know
: what type of LED are used in this fixture. I have seen already
: white LED made with the similar principle white fluorescent
: tubes are made: native LED spectrum is UV and the LED lenses
: are covered with white phosphors, re-emiting white light when
: they receive UV rays from the LED. I could only expect the same
: kind of decay of light spectrum and similar longevity with
: this kind of LEDs.
:
: You caught me! I assumed from the claim of 50,000 hours that this was a
: visible specrum semiconductor light array, assembled without the use of
: lenses (which, as you say, will degrade just like bulbs). Such would be
: the only tech I'm aware of which could make the claim of 50K hours of
: steady output. Still, its an assumption I shouldn't have made...
:
: Assuming a white LED is made on a different principle of mixing
: base colors to get white effect - with at least three different
: color LED chips inside one "bulb" I could not imagine how can
: you get properly spread light spectrum to imitate sun-light...
: You would rather get light with three or four (depending on
: number of led chips colors per bulb) peaks in the spectrum and
: not spread spectrum like incadescent or good HQI/MH fixtures give...
:
:
: I'd expect something more like 15-60 different selected wavelengths of
: output, and thus a more complete spectrum.
:
: Claims of low heat output from hese systems are accurate.
: The load demand on a chiller may be significantly reduced.
:
: Do you have any access to the efficiency of LED light data ?
: Do they really produce more light per Watt of electricity used than MH
: ?
:
: I know from direct experience how efficient they are in terms of an
: energy source for pushing industrial chemical reactions. Spectrum of
: output is much narrower than a standard bulb, but if the catalyst you
: want to have run your reaction happens to be efficient at absorbing
: light in the wavelength of output of the LED, then Yes, the LED source
: is much more efficient, watt for watt. Same goes for visible light,
: although the light fixtures are vastly too expensive at this point to be
: reasonable for replacing typical flourescent fixtures for human use
: (althoguh I don't doubt that they'll be the standard at some point in
: the future, if they can get their costs down).
: Being an industrial chemist, I don't know nearly enough about the
: active absorption wavelengths used photosynthesis to make that same
: assesssment of these lights for use in reef aquariums. The vendor claim
: of 178 PAR vs. 133 for a 250W MH source is a starting point, but that
: kind of measurement could be an inaccurate means of assessing an LED
: source.
:
: DZ

When you say sea grass, are you refering to seaweed like
calerpa, or actual salt water grass?

Yes "sea grass" does need lots of light, much more than
calerpa, and other sea weeds (algae).

As for the led's, I'm not yet sold on the idea. I still
lean towards a more natural spread of spectrum. I want to
see the true colors of the reef.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Elizabeth Davis wrote on 7/18/2006 3:07 AM:
Hi, the light setup is the solaris LED
www:solarisled.com
I need the light for the sea grasses W ayne, not for the sea horses.
Elizabeth