Sand on the bottom..........

I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
the sand? Or is that not a problem?
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Oct 8, 3:27 pm, "Jeffrey St. Clair, Ph.D." info@REMOVE*THIScichlid-
world.com wrote:
Are you referring to play type sand? I'd avoid it as it has clay and really
hard to rinse out. You could do just sand and then you just shake your
python an inch from it and it will suck up the mulm. I wouldn't mix the two
substrates as they will mix into a sand/gravel mess. Sand is great though,
because of it's density, nothing sinks in like with gravel, etc.

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message

...



I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
the sand? Or is that not a problem?
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Builders sand is commonly used for masonary work and should not have
any kind of clay in it. Of course what is called builders sand here
may not be what they call builders sand in other areas. You can buy
the play sand from Lowes or Home Depot inthe bags and it is cleaned
and free of such junk, and very cheap. I use the sugar white play
sand which is very fine and does great for plants.....I have seen the
same exact (suitable) sand sold as lawn leveling sand, builders sand,.
play sand, traction sand, masonary sand,paver leveling
sand...........all of which were identical......Just watch yu do not
get a calcium based sand such as old castle or southdown as it will
alter your ph. But if your gonna keep African cichlids then the
calcium based sand would be ideal.

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:00:51 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:

I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
the sand? Or is that not a problem?

If the tank will be heavily planted you won't be doing much vacuuming
anyway :-).

And I know I've said it before, but the best homemade substrate I've found
is the coarse "tube sand" or "traction sand" with the really fine
particles sifted out. More like fine gravel than sand. My plants seem to
love it. And it's cheap :-).

"Jeffrey St. Clair, Ph.D." wrote in
message ...
Are you referring to play type sand?

No, not the play sand. It's too fine. I'm thinking about builders sand which
is a little more coarse, cheaper, darker in color and used to mix to make
concrete.

I'd avoid it as it has clay and really
hard to rinse out. You could do just sand and then you just shake your
python an inch from it and it will suck up the mulm. I wouldn't mix the
two substrates as they will mix into a sand/gravel mess. Sand is great
though, because of it's density, nothing sinks in like with gravel, etc.

I was afraid it would go anaerobic from fine mulm if I used just sand or a
sand mix and didn't or couldn't vac it.
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Natsirt" wrote in message
ups.com...

Builders sand is commonly used for masonary work and should not have
any kind of clay in it. Of course what is called builders sand here
may not be what they call builders sand in other areas.

Where I live the builders sand from Lowe's is courser and a darker color. I
buy it to mix with potting soil for my cacti and succulents. The white play
sand it too powdery although I've used that one in potting mixes as well.

You can buy
the play sand from Lowes or Home Depot inthe bags and it is cleaned
and free of such junk, and very cheap.

Yep! :-) Not expensive at all and I like the darker color of the
builder's sand.

I use the sugar white play
sand which is very fine and does great for plants.....I have seen the
same exact (suitable) sand sold as lawn leveling sand, builders sand,.
play sand, traction sand, masonary sand,paver leveling
sand...........all of which were identical......Just watch yu do not
get a calcium based sand such as old castle or southdown as it will
alter your ph. But if your gonna keep African cichlids then the
calcium based sand would be ideal.

Thanks for the warning. I'm not sure what kind of fish are going in the 2nd
tank yet.
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:00:51 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:

I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
the sand? Or is that not a problem?

If the tank will be heavily planted you won't be doing much vacuuming
anyway :-).

And I know I've said it before, but the best homemade substrate I've found
is the coarse "tube sand" or "traction sand" with the really fine
particles sifted out. More like fine gravel than sand. My plants seem to
love it. And it's cheap :-).
==========================
Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to mix
concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may be
the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming the
bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
vacc'ed at all.
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:04 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:

And I know I've said it before, but the best homemade substrate I've found
is the coarse "tube sand" or "traction sand" with the really fine
particles sifted out. More like fine gravel than sand. My plants seem to
love it. And it's cheap :-).
==========================
Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to mix
concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may be
the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming the
bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
vacc'ed at all.

No, traction sand is what you carry in the winter to put under your wheels
if you get stuck in the snow and ice. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is fine
gravel in the 1/16" to 1/8" range. I sift out the finer stuff and throw
it away.

It may be different in your area - I live in eastern Washington state.

I haven't had any problems yet with gunk on the bottom, but I have a herd
of Maylasian trumpet snails in each tank :-).

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

The *tube sand* that I know about (and use for traction during the
winter) is a larger grit than play sand, that's for sure. = /
Found that out when one of the tubes got a hole poked in it (sharp
metal), which isn't easy to do with tube sand. The bags are really
tuff.
The sand for concrete is a bit smaller than tube sand.
Is "builder's" and the sand for mixing concrete the same stuff?

Yes. It's much coarser than play sand which is a step above powder at the
Lowe's and HD where I live.

Roy
mentioned it, as well as you RM. I just know about the concrete type
and the tube (or traction) sand.
Right now I've got 4 tubes of it on the garage floor waiting until
winter. = )

Tubes? What do you mean "tubes" of it? Here it's sold in 50lb bags like
the play sand.

I didn't know that sand like these would be safe for aquariums.
I knew some folks get their gravel from building supply places, but
had no idea about the types of sand that can be used too.
Is it prepared the same way, just rinse and use?

That's also what I'm trying to find out. I would think even this coarse
builder's sand would be hard to rinse. I don't mind cloudy water in the
tank for a few days but wouldn't want it all the time.
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:04 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:
Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to
mix
concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may
be
the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming
the
bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
vacc'ed at all.
~~~~~
No, traction sand is what you carry in the winter to put under your wheels
if you get stuck in the snow and ice. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is fine
gravel in the 1/16" to 1/8" range. I sift out the finer stuff and throw
it away.

It may be different in your area - I live in eastern Washington state.

I haven't had any problems yet with gunk on the bottom, but I have a herd
of Maylasian trumpet snails in each tank :-).

OK, I'm not familiar with traction sand. We don't get a lot of snow and ice
here but will ask for it the next time I hit Lowe's, ACE or HD. Only
mystery snails are available here and they die in less than a month. I have
no idea why.
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Oct 9, 1:45 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message

news




On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:04 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:
Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to
mix
concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may
be
the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming
the
bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
vacc'ed at all.
~~~~~
No, traction sand is what you carry in the winter to put under your wheels
if you get stuck in the snow and ice. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is fine
gravel in the 1/16" to 1/8" range. I sift out the finer stuff and throw
it away.

It may be different in your area - I live in eastern Washington state.

I haven't had any problems yet with gunk on the bottom, but I have a herd
of Maylasian trumpet snails in each tank :-).

OK, I'm not familiar with traction sand. We don't get a lot of snow and ice
here but will ask for it the next time I hit Lowe's, ACE or HD. Only
mystery snails are available here and they die in less than a month. I have
no idea why.
--

RM....
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Too bad most FW enthusiasts do not pasy as much attention to "cleanup"
crews as SW folks do. There is all kinds of suitable clean up critters
out there but they are pretty drab looking as compared to sal****er
critters, so therefore they tend to be ignored. Thats one reason they
are hard to find in most LFS as no one is gonna buy that drabold
critter when they can get a flashy pictus cat or a golden nugget
pleco..........

RM.any of the sand with the exception of calcium based (old castle or
southdown) is fine. So just look for grain size that suits you. If
in doubt if its calcium (limestone based) take a smallbottle of
vinegar with you and apply a couple of drops to the sand or gravel and
if it fizzes its limestone or calcium based...........which would not
b e good unless its used in a african cichlid environment. You'll
find the calcium / limestone based sands moreinthe paver section as
they tend to quarry rocks and grind it and its limestone they usually
use for that.........and it can be usually a grey or white in color.
Silica or quartz based looks like sugar and is uniformin grain size
(about like sugar|) and plain silica based masonary is a tan to yellow
color and is commonly used in m,asonary work / concrete etc. I wold
not pay any attention to tube, traction or what have you as it matters
not. Its just a packaging and nameing game so do not let the package
name sway you one way or the other. Look for color and grain size and
what type of sand it is.not its intended use. If its stated for
masonary or concrete or playsand you can pretty well guaraantee its
free of mud and mica particles, and only needs a good washing. They
also sell a sand called river run which is commonly sucked form river
bottoms and is a brown in color. It is usually washed by the dredge
company prior to it being marketed and it too is used in masonary and
is perfectly suitable, but I have never seen it in bagged packs, only
huge outdoor piles.