newbie queries...

Hi,

Firstly, is there a faq? - I hope I'm not asking questions that get
asked all the time.

A few months ago I bought a smallish tank setup for my small son (it's
above the level where he can tap on the glass, and he's surprisingly
responsible about his fish). It's 18*12*15 (l,w,d) and to start with I
put two goldfish (a plain yellow one and a slightly fancy one which I
think is a comet) and three white cloud minnows in the tank; it's got a
fluval one filter and some plants (which need restocking, the fish eat
them!) one of the minnows died a couple of weeks after we got them but
the others were all fine and happy (although I would like at least one
more minnow because they seem happier in numbers.) I've also got a few
trumpet snails - the burrowing ones that help keep the gravel clean.
Anyway, after a few months and the fish all doing well, I've put in
another goldfish (a little calico ryukin, who is lovely) and a small
sucking loach who had been acclimatised to a coldwater tank (yes, I know
about the loach, but I'm prepared to give it its own tank if it gets too
big and stroppy). I'm aware I shouldn't put any more fish in the tank (I
want to get a three foot one in the summer - have you guessed the fish
are really for me and not for the little one?) anyway, my queries are
these:

what are the goldfish doing when they suck up a piece of gravel and then
spit it out?

is it usual for goldfish behaviour to change when you add another fish
to the mix? they're much livelier and seem constantly hungry (I'm not
giving in to their "feed me" stuff, though). They're swimming around in
a boisterous gang. The new ryukin chased the minnows to start with but
has now stopped.

am I getting the cleaning right? I take out and replace either a quarter
of the water weekly, or half fortnightly. every six weeks I take the
fish out of the tank, remove and keep half the water, and take the
gravel out and swill the tank out (I don't overclean the gravel, just to
remove the goo, which with goldfish is revolting.) and wipe down the
front and sides of the tank with wet cotton wool. (I'm going to be
leaving the back of the tank now, for the loach.) then I refill the
tank, half with old and half with new water. the fish seem happy and
don't react badly to being removed - is the cleaning
adequate/appropriate?

is fishkeeping addictive? I'm getting a bit worried!

sorry for the slightly huge post, and thank you very much for any help.
--
sophie

the tank is overstocked. dont mix GF with other species.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...htm#essentials
change water according to the nitrate levels..
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm


sophie wrote:


Hi,

Firstly, is there a faq? - I hope I'm not asking questions that get
asked all the time.

A few months ago I bought a smallish tank setup for my small son (it's
above the level where he can tap on the glass, and he's surprisingly
responsible about his fish). It's 18*12*15 (l,w,d) and to start with I
put two goldfish (a plain yellow one and a slightly fancy one which I
think is a comet) and three white cloud minnows in the tank; it's got a
fluval one filter and some plants (which need restocking, the fish eat
them!) one of the minnows died a couple of weeks after we got them but
the others were all fine and happy (although I would like at least one
more minnow because they seem happier in numbers.) I've also got a few
trumpet snails - the burrowing ones that help keep the gravel clean.
Anyway, after a few months and the fish all doing well, I've put in
another goldfish (a little calico ryukin, who is lovely) and a small
sucking loach who had been acclimatised to a coldwater tank (yes, I know
about the loach, but I'm prepared to give it its own tank if it gets too
big and stroppy). I'm aware I shouldn't put any more fish in the tank (I
want to get a three foot one in the summer - have you guessed the fish
are really for me and not for the little one?) anyway, my queries are
these:

what are the goldfish doing when they suck up a piece of gravel and then
spit it out?

is it usual for goldfish behaviour to change when you add another fish
to the mix? they're much livelier and seem constantly hungry (I'm not
giving in to their "feed me" stuff, though). They're swimming around in
a boisterous gang. The new ryukin chased the minnows to start with but
has now stopped.

am I getting the cleaning right? I take out and replace either a quarter
of the water weekly, or half fortnightly. every six weeks I take the
fish out of the tank, remove and keep half the water, and take the
gravel out and swill the tank out (I don't overclean the gravel, just to
remove the goo, which with goldfish is revolting.) and wipe down the
front and sides of the tank with wet cotton wool. (I'm going to be
leaving the back of the tank now, for the loach.) then I refill the
tank, half with old and half with new water. the fish seem happy and
don't react badly to being removed - is the cleaning
adequate/appropriate?

is fishkeeping addictive? I'm getting a bit worried!

sorry for the slightly huge post, and thank you very much for any help.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

In message ,
writes
the tank is overstocked. dont mix GF with other species.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...htm#essentials
change water according to the nitrate levels..
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm

Hi,

thank you for the reply and the links! I'd worked out that according to
the surface area/inch of fish rule that this was as many fish as I could
put in the tank, but I hadn't thought it was overstocked. If it is, I'm
certainly going to be a little annoyed with the aquatics shop, as they
assured me that this would be fine. They have a reputation as a very
good shop, too. :-(
As I've said, I will get a bigger tank in the summer - will things not
be ok until then?
nor had I realised that goldfish shouldn't be kept with other fish; the
friends I caught the bug from have kept goldfish with white clouds for
years with no problems... is there a specific reason not to do this?

thanks again,


sophie wrote:


Hi,

Firstly, is there a faq? - I hope I'm not asking questions that get
asked all the time.

A few months ago I bought a smallish tank setup for my small son (it's
above the level where he can tap on the glass, and he's surprisingly
responsible about his fish). It's 18*12*15 (l,w,d) and to start with I
put two goldfish (a plain yellow one and a slightly fancy one which I
think is a comet) and three white cloud minnows in the tank; it's got a
fluval one filter and some plants (which need restocking, the fish eat
them!) one of the minnows died a couple of weeks after we got them but
the others were all fine and happy (although I would like at least one
more minnow because they seem happier in numbers.) I've also got a few
trumpet snails - the burrowing ones that help keep the gravel clean.
Anyway, after a few months and the fish all doing well, I've put in
another goldfish (a little calico ryukin, who is lovely) and a small
sucking loach who had been acclimatised to a coldwater tank (yes, I know
about the loach, but I'm prepared to give it its own tank if it gets too
big and stroppy). I'm aware I shouldn't put any more fish in the tank (I
want to get a three foot one in the summer - have you guessed the fish
are really for me and not for the little one?) anyway, my queries are
these:

what are the goldfish doing when they suck up a piece of gravel and then
spit it out?

is it usual for goldfish behaviour to change when you add another fish
to the mix? they're much livelier and seem constantly hungry (I'm not
giving in to their "feed me" stuff, though). They're swimming around in
a boisterous gang. The new ryukin chased the minnows to start with but
has now stopped.

am I getting the cleaning right? I take out and replace either a quarter
of the water weekly, or half fortnightly. every six weeks I take the
fish out of the tank, remove and keep half the water, and take the
gravel out and swill the tank out (I don't overclean the gravel, just to
remove the goo, which with goldfish is revolting.) and wipe down the
front and sides of the tank with wet cotton wool. (I'm going to be
leaving the back of the tank now, for the loach.) then I refill the
tank, half with old and half with new water. the fish seem happy and
don't react badly to being removed - is the cleaning
adequate/appropriate?

is fishkeeping addictive? I'm getting a bit worried!

sorry for the slightly huge post, and thank you very much for any help.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

--
sophie

Sophie,

Fish shops have a habit of giving bad info. Goldfish lovers have no hidden
agenda
giving out information, fish shops do. They want your cash.

I know of quite a few people who have kept White Clouds with goldfish.
I'd suggest doing regular water changes for the time being and definitely
getting
the test kits. You want to get a larger tank ASAP though otherwise your goldfish
could
stunt.

In message , Geezer From The Freezer
writes
Sophie,

Fish shops have a habit of giving bad info. Goldfish lovers have no hidden
agenda
giving out information,

that's what I thought! I posted here because I thought I'd get nice
unbiased voices of experience.

fish shops do. They want your cash.

yes. sadly, this one made me feel very secure by refusing point blank to
sell me more than two goldfish to start with on the grounds that I
hadn't kept fish since I was a kid. They also were well aware of the
fact that I wanted to get a bigger tank - I assumed that if they were
after my money, big tank+hood+bits was more appealing than a few quid on
a couple of fish. or maybe they genuinely thought it was ok? anyway,
they seem(ed) genuine and caring. they certainly have good fish and
they're really helpful about stuff.

I know of quite a few people who have kept White Clouds with goldfish.
I'd suggest doing regular water changes for the time being

is 1/4 tank weekly ok? I got a gravel hoover thing so I can do that more
easily and regularly.

and definitely
getting
the test kits. You want to get a larger tank ASAP though otherwise your
goldfish
could
stunt.

I read an interesting article recently which suggested that the
"stunting" is due to concentrations of chemicals that the big fish give
out that inhibit growth in other fish - in a little tank, the
concentrations are high.

is the surface area to inch of fish equation serisouly wrong? how do I
work out how many fish it is kind to keep in what size tank? (and if it
involves gallons, are these american or uk? ;-) )

thanks for your reply, btw, I appreciate it - I'm just sorry it's raised
more questions!
--
sophie

As a basic rule for beginners you should ideally have an absolute minimum of
10 gallons of water per goldfish but the more the better.
Mel.


"sophie" wrote in message
...
In message , Geezer From The Freezer
writes
Sophie,

Fish shops have a habit of giving bad info. Goldfish lovers have no
hidden
agenda
giving out information,

that's what I thought! I posted here because I thought I'd get nice
unbiased voices of experience.

fish shops do. They want your cash.

yes. sadly, this one made me feel very secure by refusing point blank to
sell me more than two goldfish to start with on the grounds that I
hadn't kept fish since I was a kid. They also were well aware of the
fact that I wanted to get a bigger tank - I assumed that if they were
after my money, big tank+hood+bits was more appealing than a few quid on
a couple of fish. or maybe they genuinely thought it was ok? anyway,
they seem(ed) genuine and caring. they certainly have good fish and
they're really helpful about stuff.

I know of quite a few people who have kept White Clouds with goldfish.
I'd suggest doing regular water changes for the time being

is 1/4 tank weekly ok? I got a gravel hoover thing so I can do that more
easily and regularly.

and definitely
getting
the test kits. You want to get a larger tank ASAP though otherwise your
goldfish
could
stunt.

I read an interesting article recently which suggested that the
"stunting" is due to concentrations of chemicals that the big fish give
out that inhibit growth in other fish - in a little tank, the
concentrations are high.

is the surface area to inch of fish equation serisouly wrong? how do I
work out how many fish it is kind to keep in what size tank? (and if it
involves gallons, are these american or uk? ;-) )

thanks for your reply, btw, I appreciate it - I'm just sorry it's raised
more questions!
--
sophie

where is the information published? if not in a scientific publication for fish
keeping it cannot be relied upon.
mostly it is ammonia stunts fish. and not even the levels that can be measured. GF
put out a certain amount just resting and it both needs to be diluted and it needs to
be removed quickly or it can affect growth. then comes crowding and the stress that
brings. stress takes down the immune system leaving fish open to disease.

sophie wrote:
I read an interesting article recently which suggested that the
"stunting" is due to concentrations of chemicals that the big fish give
out that inhibit growth in other fish - in a little tank, the
concentrations are high.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

the surface or per inch rule doesnt apply to GF. fancy GF are bigger around (the
volume rule) and they are dirtier fish. surface doesnt matter with aeration. what
counts is amount of water and nitrate concentration (20 ppm or lower). 10 gallons
per fish of medium size fed with good food and not too much makes the amount of
nitrates can be lowered with 1 water change per week.
white clouds arent too bad, GF will eat anything fits in their mouth including
smaller fish. plecos or algae eaters will suck GF slime making GF sick and die.
Ingrid

sophie wrote:
I'd worked out that according to
the surface area/inch of fish rule that this was as many fish as I could
put in the tank, but I hadn't thought it was overstocked.
nor had I realised that goldfish shouldn't be kept with other fish; the
friends I caught the bug from have kept goldfish with white clouds for
years with no problems... is there a specific reason not to do this?

thanks again,


sophie wrote:


Hi,

Firstly, is there a faq? - I hope I'm not asking questions that get
asked all the time.

A few months ago I bought a smallish tank setup for my small son (it's
above the level where he can tap on the glass, and he's surprisingly
responsible about his fish). It's 18*12*15 (l,w,d) and to start with I
put two goldfish (a plain yellow one and a slightly fancy one which I
think is a comet) and three white cloud minnows in the tank; it's got a
fluval one filter and some plants (which need restocking, the fish eat
them!) one of the minnows died a couple of weeks after we got them but
the others were all fine and happy (although I would like at least one
more minnow because they seem happier in numbers.) I've also got a few
trumpet snails - the burrowing ones that help keep the gravel clean.
Anyway, after a few months and the fish all doing well, I've put in
another goldfish (a little calico ryukin, who is lovely) and a small
sucking loach who had been acclimatised to a coldwater tank (yes, I know
about the loach, but I'm prepared to give it its own tank if it gets too
big and stroppy). I'm aware I shouldn't put any more fish in the tank (I
want to get a three foot one in the summer - have you guessed the fish
are really for me and not for the little one?) anyway, my queries are
these:

what are the goldfish doing when they suck up a piece of gravel and then
spit it out?

is it usual for goldfish behaviour to change when you add another fish
to the mix? they're much livelier and seem constantly hungry (I'm not
giving in to their "feed me" stuff, though). They're swimming around in
a boisterous gang. The new ryukin chased the minnows to start with but
has now stopped.

am I getting the cleaning right? I take out and replace either a quarter
of the water weekly, or half fortnightly. every six weeks I take the
fish out of the tank, remove and keep half the water, and take the
gravel out and swill the tank out (I don't overclean the gravel, just to
remove the goo, which with goldfish is revolting.) and wipe down the
front and sides of the tank with wet cotton wool. (I'm going to be
leaving the back of the tank now, for the loach.) then I refill the
tank, half with old and half with new water. the fish seem happy and
don't react badly to being removed - is the cleaning
adequate/appropriate?

is fishkeeping addictive? I'm getting a bit worried!

sorry for the slightly huge post, and thank you very much for any help.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

In message ,
writes
the surface or per inch rule doesnt apply to GF. fancy GF are bigger
around (the
volume rule) and they are dirtier fish. surface doesnt matter with
aeration. what
counts is amount of water and nitrate concentration (20 ppm or lower).
10 gallons
per fish of medium size fed with good food and not too much makes the amount of
nitrates can be lowered with 1 water change per week.
white clouds arent too bad, GF will eat anything fits in their mouth including
smaller fish. plecos or algae eaters will suck GF slime making GF sick
and die.

I'd heard that about the plecos and algae eaters and had already decided
that if it showed signs of that it would go in a different tank to the
rest! so far, it hasn't, but at the moment it's small, as are the rest
of the fish. the inch rule I got from the website of one the UK's
goldfish societies rather than from the aquatics shop. anyway, I
obviously need a bigger tank and will change the water weekly until I
get one. I'll keep a close eye on the fish and make sure they stay
healthy, if they look like things are going wrong I'll get the bigger
tank sooner.

thank you very much for all your advice, I appreciate it.

Ingrid

sophie wrote:
I'd worked out that according to
the surface area/inch of fish rule that this was as many fish as I could
put in the tank, but I hadn't thought it was overstocked.
nor had I realised that goldfish shouldn't be kept with other fish; the
friends I caught the bug from have kept goldfish with white clouds for
years with no problems... is there a specific reason not to do this?

thanks again,


sophie wrote:


Hi,

Firstly, is there a faq? - I hope I'm not asking questions that get
asked all the time.

A few months ago I bought a smallish tank setup for my small son (it's
above the level where he can tap on the glass, and he's surprisingly
responsible about his fish). It's 18*12*15 (l,w,d) and to start with I
put two goldfish (a plain yellow one and a slightly fancy one which I
think is a comet) and three white cloud minnows in the tank; it's got a
fluval one filter and some plants (which need restocking, the fish eat
them!) one of the minnows died a couple of weeks after we got them but
the others were all fine and happy (although I would like at least one
more minnow because they seem happier in numbers.) I've also got a few
trumpet snails - the burrowing ones that help keep the gravel clean.
Anyway, after a few months and the fish all doing well, I've put in
another goldfish (a little calico ryukin, who is lovely) and a small
sucking loach who had been acclimatised to a coldwater tank (yes, I know
about the loach, but I'm prepared to give it its own tank if it gets too
big and stroppy). I'm aware I shouldn't put any more fish in the tank (I
want to get a three foot one in the summer - have you guessed the fish
are really for me and not for the little one?) anyway, my queries are
these:

what are the goldfish doing when they suck up a piece of gravel and then
spit it out?

is it usual for goldfish behaviour to change when you add another fish
to the mix? they're much livelier and seem constantly hungry (I'm not
giving in to their "feed me" stuff, though). They're swimming around in
a boisterous gang. The new ryukin chased the minnows to start with but
has now stopped.

am I getting the cleaning right? I take out and replace either a quarter
of the water weekly, or half fortnightly. every six weeks I take the
fish out of the tank, remove and keep half the water, and take the
gravel out and swill the tank out (I don't overclean the gravel, just to
remove the goo, which with goldfish is revolting.) and wipe down the
front and sides of the tank with wet cotton wool. (I'm going to be
leaving the back of the tank now, for the loach.) then I refill the
tank, half with old and half with new water. the fish seem happy and
don't react badly to being removed - is the cleaning
adequate/appropriate?

is fishkeeping addictive? I'm getting a bit worried!

sorry for the slightly huge post, and thank you very much for any help.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

--
sophie

sophie wrote:


Hi,

Firstly, is there a faq? - I hope I'm not asking questions that get
asked all the time.

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...htm#essentials

what are the goldfish doing when they suck up a piece of gravel and
then spit it out?

Looking for food.

is it usual for goldfish behaviour to change when you add another fish
to the mix?

Yes

is fishkeeping addictive? I'm getting a bit worried!

Yes. Welcome to the insanity.

-Donald
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright