Clown Loaches with Ich Mystery

I have 4 clown loaches and they are completely covered in a very fine
powder. I have been treating them with white spot treatmenr for 2 weeks,
but the "white spots" remain untouched. I also increased the tempearture
to over 30 degrees Celsius. The clown loaches haven't lost any colour,
but they have become very shy, but do come out when it is darker. They
also scratch themselves on rocks.

In all the 15 years I have been keeping fish I have never seen such fine
microscopic spots. They seem to be less than 0.3 millimetre and they
never grow any larger except on the tail. They certainly never reach the
size shown in this photo below.

http://www.loaches.com/species_image..._ick_large.jpg

My large adult silver shark also has some of these spots, but the
density is far less, but the spot size is the same. In fact, they almost
look like microscopic bubbles trapped under its skin.

My mollies had a few on their tail, but they has cleared up.

The tank is 330 litres. I have been changing 20% of the tank water every
couple of days. The readings for nitrites and ammonia are close to 0,
but the nitrites did spike a few days ago.

Are these spots really Ichthyophthirius? They seem completely immune to
Protozin, which is the medicine I have been giving them. Usually, white
spot clears up in a few days and the spots are much larger and snowy
looking.

Any ideas welcome!

Nikki

Can you post a pic?

Maybe host it somewhere like a yahoo group?

Have you considered that you may have a parasite?

Not heard of anything quite that small though.

Can you pick-off the spots with tweezers or similar?

Do you have a magnifying glass/ microscope?

I have picked-off larger 'flukes' from stickles and goldies.

Tana.

--
---
At first there was nothing. Then there was light! Then there was
still nothing. But you could see it.
---


This communication and the information contained in it are confidential and
may be legally privileged. The content is intended solely for the use of the
individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to
receive it. If you are not the intended recipient it is hereby brought to
your notice that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or dissemination, or
alternatively the taking of any action in reliance on it, is strictly
prohibited and may constitute grounds for action, either civil or criminal,
at the instigation of A Tanabalan.

"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...
I have 4 clown loaches and they are completely covered in a very fine
powder. I have been treating them with white spot treatmenr for 2 weeks,
but the "white spots" remain untouched. I also increased the tempearture to
over 30 degrees Celsius. The clown loaches haven't lost any colour, but
they have become very shy, but do come out when it is darker. They also
scratch themselves on rocks.

In all the 15 years I have been keeping fish I have never seen such fine
microscopic spots. They seem to be less than 0.3 millimetre and they never
grow any larger except on the tail. They certainly never reach the size
shown in this photo below.

http://www.loaches.com/species_image..._ick_large.jpg

My large adult silver shark also has some of these spots, but the density
is far less, but the spot size is the same. In fact, they almost look like
microscopic bubbles trapped under its skin.

My mollies had a few on their tail, but they has cleared up.

The tank is 330 litres. I have been changing 20% of the tank water every
couple of days. The readings for nitrites and ammonia are close to 0, but
the nitrites did spike a few days ago.

Are these spots really Ichthyophthirius? They seem completely immune to
Protozin, which is the medicine I have been giving them. Usually, white
spot clears up in a few days and the spots are much larger and snowy
looking.

Any ideas welcome!

Nikki

I have one stunted molly that appears to have a few of these spots on
its tail. I could try scraping some of, if that is possible. I do have a
microscope for the purpose of diagnosing fish illnesses, but I've never
had to use it really.

Nikki

Anandan Tanabalan wrote:
Can you post a pic?

Maybe host it somewhere like a yahoo group?

Have you considered that you may have a parasite?

Not heard of anything quite that small though.

Can you pick-off the spots with tweezers or similar?

Do you have a magnifying glass/ microscope?

I have picked-off larger 'flukes' from stickles and goldies.

Tana.

Ok, I've managed to get together a web page with some photos. My video
camera has managed to take some good photos and the lighting was very good.

Here's adhoc the page:
http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/

The first image is good. Is it ich? I've only ever seen them much larger.

Nikki

Anandan Tanabalan wrote:

Can you post a pic?

Maybe host it somewhere like a yahoo group?

Have you considered that you may have a parasite?

Not heard of anything quite that small though.

Can you pick-off the spots with tweezers or similar?

Do you have a magnifying glass/ microscope?

I have picked-off larger 'flukes' from stickles and goldies.

Tana.

I'd say it's definitely ich.

Nikki Casali wrote:
The first image is good. Is it ich? I've only ever seen them much larger.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

Those clowns have velvet - Oödinium, not ich.

Some treatments will work on both but you need to be looking for a med that
lists Oodinium.

Sue





"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
I'd say it's definitely ich.

Nikki Casali wrote:
The first image is good. Is it ich? I've only ever seen them much
larger.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

|| I'd say it's definitely ich.

Really Victor?? IMO, it doesn't look like ich that I've ever had... my
opinion is that ich is more of a salt grain versus a powdery substance
appearance....

What about velvet???

Here's a couple things that might help...
http://www.thepetprofessor.com/secPe...314&breed=Fish

Taken from http://www.loaches.com/cloachfaq.html
What to watch out for:

- ick, at the first sign of ick, medicate the tank with any product at half
dose. Keep the medicine concentration at a steady level until the Ick are
all gone. Almost any medicine that treats Ick will work. Personally I have
always been successful with coppersafe.

- velvet, this is a white film that develops on the skin. Treat as above for
ick. Velvet is a disease.


My guess would be to check more into velvet just in case

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ((((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ((((º ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ((((º
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

Ok, I'm beginning to think this is actually Velvet or Oodinium which I
have never seen before.

The description is "Symptoms: Very small white speckles on fish.
Resembles a fine powder."
http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?...rder=0&thold=0

My tank is now full of the Protozin medication. It is too late in the
day for me to purchase anti-Velvet medication. Can anyone suggest a
natural remedy for the next 16 hours which will alleviate the symptoms?

Will Protozin help with the Velvet?

I have my tank set to 30.5 (86.9) degrees Celsius. Salt is 1 ppt (1g per
litre). Lots of aeration. I'm pushing the temperature just a bit too far.

I have a 24 UK gallon hosptial tank set up. Can I use it? What about a
salt bath for the loaches? Would they tolerate a very high concentration
for a few seconds?

Thanks for all the help so far.

Nikki

RedForeman ©® wrote:

|| I'd say it's definitely ich.

Really Victor?? IMO, it doesn't look like ich that I've ever had... my
opinion is that ich is more of a salt grain versus a powdery substance
appearance....

What about velvet???

Here's a couple things that might help...
http://www.thepetprofessor.com/secPe...314&breed=Fish

Taken from http://www.loaches.com/cloachfaq.html
What to watch out for:

- ick, at the first sign of ick, medicate the tank with any product at half
dose. Keep the medicine concentration at a steady level until the Ick are
all gone. Almost any medicine that treats Ick will work. Personally I have
always been successful with coppersafe.

- velvet, this is a white film that develops on the skin. Treat as above for
ick. Velvet is a disease.


My guess would be to check more into velvet just in case

RedForeman ©® wrote:
What about velvet???

Velvet is supposed to look like a film, not particles. That's why I say
that's ich.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

When the sun went down, I got a torch out and shone it down the side of
one of the clown loaches and took a few photos. He was breathing
extremely rapidly.

The powdery grains are all raised from the body. They look like minute
salt granules just stuck on:
http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/

Nikki

Nikki Casali wrote:

Ok, I've managed to get together a web page with some photos. My video
camera has managed to take some good photos and the lighting was very good.

Here's adhoc the page:
http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/

The first image is good. Is it ich? I've only ever seen them much larger.

Nikki

Anandan Tanabalan wrote:

Can you post a pic?

Maybe host it somewhere like a yahoo group?

Have you considered that you may have a parasite?

Not heard of anything quite that small though.

Can you pick-off the spots with tweezers or similar?

Do you have a magnifying glass/ microscope?

I have picked-off larger 'flukes' from stickles and goldies.

Tana.