Q: Adjusting pH levels

Hi all,
Nubile is looking for an advice
What kind of chemicals do you use to lower pH in your ponds?
Yes, yes, I know, you buy stuff in local pond store.
Unfortunately, I do not have that kind of shop close enough.
However, I do have chemical store in my neighbourhood which provides
chemically clean acids.
Which of them is suitable for my pond?
I just do not want to harm fish and plants.
Thanx,
Tom

Thomas Mann wrote:

Nubile is looking for an advice

Nubile?? I think you mean, newbie.

What kind of chemicals do you use to lower pH in your ponds?

None, zero, nada.

Which of them is suitable for my pond?

Those who insist on using chemicals will say only Muriatic (Hydrochloric)
Acid.

I just do not want to harm fish and plants.

More harm is done to fish by playing with pH than leaving it in the high
8's, but I realize some plants have trouble with the pH that high. I'd
still try to stabilize it in the low 8s using limestone chips, dolomite,
crushed coral, etc., rather than trying to get it lower.
--
derek

Yes, sure, I meant "newbie" (damn PC is not learning English as fast
as I wish
Muriatic acid is known, I thought it is used to cure concrete ponds
and is harmful to fish. If I am not mistaken it is HCl, so one of
compounds is very toxic to fish. What if Cl in certain conditions is
released to water?
Tom



Derek Broughton wrote in message ...
Thomas Mann wrote:

Nubile is looking for an advice

Nubile?? I think you mean, newbie.

What kind of chemicals do you use to lower pH in your ponds?

None, zero, nada.

Which of them is suitable for my pond?

Those who insist on using chemicals will say only Muriatic (Hydrochloric)
Acid.

I just do not want to harm fish and plants.

More harm is done to fish by playing with pH than leaving it in the high
8's, but I realize some plants have trouble with the pH that high. I'd
still try to stabilize it in the low 8s using limestone chips, dolomite,
crushed coral, etc., rather than trying to get it lower.

On 4 Oct 2004 04:46:00 -0700, (Thomas Mann) wrote:

Yes, sure, I meant "newbie" (damn PC is not learning English as fast
as I wish
Muriatic acid is known, I thought it is used to cure concrete ponds
and is harmful to fish. If I am not mistaken it is HCl, so one of
compounds is very toxic to fish. What if Cl in certain conditions is
released to water?
It is a chemical reaction of any acid with a base or organic. You get
bubbles. Cl in the water would become, well, muriatic acid again.
--
Crashj

Crashj wrote:

On 4 Oct 2004 04:46:00 -0700, (Thomas Mann) wrote:

Yes, sure, I meant "newbie" (damn PC is not learning English as fast
as I wish
Muriatic acid is known, I thought it is used to cure concrete ponds
and is harmful to fish. If I am not mistaken it is HCl, so one of
compounds is very toxic to fish. What if Cl in certain conditions is
released to water?
It is a chemical reaction of any acid with a base or organic.
You get bubbles.

Well, not really. There may be some situations where that's true, but in
the typical case: HCl + (x)OH = HOH + (x)Cl
IE, water + a salt. Where your most likely bases are Ca(OH)2 or Mg(OH)2
there's no problem. I failed organic Chem, so I can't say what happens
with organics :-) I guess there's a possibility of producing
organochlorides - bad for us in the drinking water, but I don't know how
bad they'd be for fish.
--
derek

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:04:51 -0300, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Crashj wrote:

On 4 Oct 2004 04:46:00 -0700, (Thomas Mann) wrote:

What if Cl in certain conditions is released to water?
It is a chemical reaction of any acid with a base or organic.
You get bubbles.

Well, not really. There may be some situations where that's true, but in
the typical case: HCl + (x)OH = HOH + (x)Cl

Agreed. Bubbles comes from higher concentrations not being absorbed.
Then they react, and as you said:
acid + base = salt + water
or even more complex organics.
Crashj "Is there an org-chem in the house?" Johnson
--
Crashj

The Cl given off from the acid is the Cl- ion, similar to the Cl- ion in
table salt. I think it is fairly innocuous, but when Cl2 is formed, that is
chlorine gas, which is what is mixed with water to form hypochlorite, ie.
clorox, which is dangerous to the pond inhabitants.
"Thomas Mann" wrote in message
om...
Yes, sure, I meant "newbie" (damn PC is not learning English as fast
as I wish
Muriatic acid is known, I thought it is used to cure concrete ponds
and is harmful to fish. If I am not mistaken it is HCl, so one of
compounds is very toxic to fish. What if Cl in certain conditions is
released to water?
Tom



Derek Broughton wrote in message
...
Thomas Mann wrote:

Nubile is looking for an advice

Nubile?? I think you mean, newbie.

What kind of chemicals do you use to lower pH in your ponds?

None, zero, nada.

Which of them is suitable for my pond?

Those who insist on using chemicals will say only Muriatic
(Hydrochloric)
Acid.

I just do not want to harm fish and plants.

More harm is done to fish by playing with pH than leaving it in the high
8's, but I realize some plants have trouble with the pH that high. I'd
still try to stabilize it in the low 8s using limestone chips, dolomite,
crushed coral, etc., rather than trying to get it lower.

Cl- really really doesnt want to give up that electron and go to chlorine gas.
Ingrid

The Cl given off from the acid is the Cl- ion, similar to the Cl- ion in
table salt. I think it is fairly innocuous, but when Cl2 is formed, that is
chlorine gas, which is what is mixed with water to form hypochlorite, ie.
clorox, which is dangerous to the pond inhabitants.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Cl- ions are the part of NaCl that is very good for fish. in fact I think Brett uses
CaCl2 to bring up Cl- levels. not to worry. people who have water softeners
sometimes have toxic levels of the sodium ion Na+ tho. Ingrid

(Thomas Mann) wrote:

Yes, sure, I meant "newbie" (damn PC is not learning English as fast
as I wish
Muriatic acid is known, I thought it is used to cure concrete ponds
and is harmful to fish. If I am not mistaken it is HCl, so one of
compounds is very toxic to fish. What if Cl in certain conditions is
released to water?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On 1 Oct 2004 05:46:22 -0700, (Thomas Mann) wrote:
What kind of chemicals do you use to lower pH in your ponds?
Yes, yes, I know, you buy stuff in local pond store.

Actually, the consensus here is to discourage chemical abuse of ponds.
;-)
While I am sure you will get recommendations for simple household
chemicals, most feel that in the long run you are better off with a
stable environment. Does that make sense?
If your source water is too alkaline, you can use white vinegar (a
machine distilled product) or muriatic acid (nasty powerful stuff) to
adjust in small increments. One hopes you remember your basic
chemistry classes and remember to add the acid to water then add the
diluted mixture to the pond and allow it to mix well then observe pH
changes. Protective goggles and gloves are required if you use the
strong acid.
Good luck.
--
Crashj