Nitrates?

I know this is probably a controversial subject but I am still trying to get
a real grasp of what concerns I should have about nitrates. The opinions
seem to be diverse. Some say the number is not so significant so long as
the fish grow with it. Others say don't worry unless its almost off the
scale. Others say whoa 10ppm max, no 20 well no more than 30-50. I am
hopelessly addicted to my little fishes so I generally think I keep a pretty
good tank. Around 10x gph/tank size with penguin filters. Weekly water
changes and vacuuming. Test 2x/wk. No ammonia or nitrites. But my nitrates
do tend to be a little high (depending on who you talk to).=10-40 I think.
It seems you would have to be an accomplished artist to correctly interpret
those shades Frankly my budget is well suited to the inexpensive bio
wheels, but I am tempted to try canisters just so I can add some nitra zorb
or other additives, if it's really necessary. Of course then there are
other vets who say UG filter and a sponge filter, thats all you ever need to
add to a tank. The bottom line is I am going to have a tendency to want to
spend sparingly, add as little as possible and stock heavily and I am trying
to 'learn' to know how many fish I can handle safely. I am willing to put
in more time quicker than I am more money. I really do value each fish so I
don't want to learn by death rates. But, I also pond. From there I know
there are alway those who suggest much lower stocking rates, 'to be safe'
when much higher are possible if you know what you've doing and are willing
to moniter things a little more closely.

Sorry, I know this is a long post and probably some will be tempted to say
give it 4 years and you'll get you 'fish sense'. I'm hoping I can cut down
that time with some of your wisdom.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
om...
|I know this is probably a controversial subject but I am still
trying to get
| a real grasp of what concerns I should have about nitrates. The
opinions
| seem to be diverse. Some say the number is not so significant so
long as
| the fish grow with it. Others say don't worry unless its almost
off the
| scale. Others say whoa 10ppm max, no 20 well no more than 30-50.

Most FW fish, in my experience, can tolerate very high levels of
nitrates, well over 100ppm. That is not to say they enjoy it, nor
that it lends to a long, healthy life. In the perfect world, keeping
the nitrates in your freshwater tank under 10 could not be called a
hazard by any means. Like you, however, I'm neither wealthy, nor
overloaded with spare time, likely the reason we're posting on USENET
at this time of night.
The thing to keep in mind is that it is not *necessarily* the
toxins that kill the fish. The worst thing for our fish is
inconsistency. Temp fluctuation. PH variance. Ammonia spikes because
of improper filter maintenance would, in many cases, be more
hazardous than a constant low level of ammonia. The amount of energy
required to handle the changes is enormous, and results in a weakened
fish, which is much more likely to succumb to other maladies.
All that said, I would agree, at least in part, with two of the
statements you related.
"Some say the number is not (necessarily) so significant so long as
the fish grow with it." and "well no more than 30-50". If there is a
maintenance regimen that you can establish and keep to, that will
maintain the water parameters within a small range, your fish should
be very well.

billy

nitrates are harmless. Don't worry about it. In fact in planted tanks
people try to get more nitrates which the aquatic plants need to live. I
would agree with those that say as long as they don't go off the scale it
will be fine. As long as you are doing your weekly water changes, don't
worry about it.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

Margolis wrote:

nitrates are harmless. Don't worry about it. In fact in planted tanks
people try to get more nitrates which the aquatic plants need to live. I
would agree with those that say as long as they don't go off the scale it
will be fine. As long as you are doing your weekly water changes, don't
worry about it.


Nitrates at high levels are not harmless to fish, it will kill them eventually!

"Geezer From The Freezer" wrote in message
...


Margolis wrote:

nitrates are harmless. Don't worry about it. In fact in planted tanks
people try to get more nitrates which the aquatic plants need to live. I
would agree with those that say as long as they don't go off the scale it
will be fine. As long as you are doing your weekly water changes, don't
worry about it.


Nitrates at high levels are not harmless to fish, it will kill them
eventually!

So then we change 25% of our water, clean all of our filters, vacuum the
gravel and learn to feed our pets properly (before they get killed)

Oz


--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

"Geezer From The Freezer" wrote in message
...


Margolis wrote:

nitrates are harmless. Don't worry about it. In fact in planted tanks
people try to get more nitrates which the aquatic plants need to live.
I
would agree with those that say as long as they don't go off the scale
it
will be fine. As long as you are doing your weekly water changes, don't
worry about it.


Nitrates at high levels are not harmless to fish, it will kill them
eventually!


I didn't say they were harmless at high levels. They are harmless as long
as they don't get extreme. That is why I qualified my statement by saying.

"As long as you are doing your weekly water changes, don't
worry about it."



--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Margolis" wrote in message
...
"Geezer From The Freezer" wrote in message
...


Nitrates at high levels are not harmless to fish, it will kill them
eventually!


I didn't say they were harmless at high levels. They are harmless as long
as they don't get extreme. That is why I qualified my statement by
saying.

"As long as you are doing your weekly water changes, don't
worry about it."

I'm inclined to agree with this. Apparently I'm a more casual hobbyist than
ya'll. I have never monitored my water for anything, and my fish always seem
to live forever. I do change the water and clean the gravel pretty
regularly, and the rest seems to take care of itself. Algae is my biggest
battle, but it's certainly not overwhelming. The fish don't seem to mind it

A, trying to figure out what "KH" levels are...

KH is a measurement for water hardss .. ie minerals/metallic elements
content.

Passing this along too -- just learned yesterday nitrates ..that
when measuring in conjunction with tank medical treatments -- you may
get false positives ..(ie high problem readings with ammonial
derivatives due to the treating chemical ie a fungal eliminator)

So good husbandry and partial water changes ... etc.

"Margolis" wrote in message
...
| nitrates are harmless. Don't worry about it. In fact in planted
tanks
| people try to get more nitrates

This is because the plants *consume* the nitrates, so while the
plants keep the nitrates low, this in no way suggests that nitrates
don't harm fish. My planted tank usually reads 0 nitrates, despite my
efforts to raise them with the use of fertilizers of various types,
and the fact that I rarely do water changes on it.
Nitrates are not harmless, it's a poison. Not as bad a poison as
ammonia, for example, but a poison just the same. Large amounts will
kill fish.

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
om...
I know this is probably a controversial subject but I am still trying to
get a real grasp of what concerns I should have about nitrates. The
opinions seem to be diverse. Some say the number is not so significant so
long as the fish grow with it. Others say don't worry unless its almost
off the scale. Others say whoa 10ppm max, no 20 well no more than 30-50.

That's the advice I've usually gotten from people who
have really large tanks with a lot of expensive fish.
I have small mostly cheap tropicals.

I am
hopelessly addicted to my little fishes so I generally think I keep a
pretty good tank.

I managed to kill off all but my Cory cats before
someone clued me in on nitrates. Now I have heavily
planted tanks and don't worry about nitrates. Plants
are healthy, fish are healthy, and I do partial water
changes about every 2 weeks to replace minerals and
bring pH & kh back up. (Adding baking soda is
helping with that, plus I'm starting to experiment with
a bit of crushed coral.)

Around 10x gph/tank size with penguin filters. Weekly water
changes and vacuuming. Test 2x/wk. No ammonia or nitrites. But my
nitrates do tend to be a little high (depending on who you talk to).=10-40
I think.

Could be you're overfeeding a bit. That's something a
lot of us do, I think. Maybe try throwing in a fast day?
It's hard to walk past a tank knowing I haven't fed
the poor guys that day, but it really doesn't hurt them
and might help keep the nitrates down. Anyhoo, I
schedule Wednesday for my fast days. (by "my" I
mean the fish, but I suppose I could do a fast day
for myself, too. LOL)

It seems you would have to be an accomplished artist to correctly
interpret those shades Frankly my budget is well suited to the
inexpensive bio wheels,

I use those, too. And I find natural light (I step just
outside my door) can help compare the results to the
paper scales.

but I am tempted to try canisters just so I can add some nitra zorb
or other additives, if it's really necessary.

I have added stuff in the power filters. Buy small media
bags at Petsmart or wherever. I've never had a canister.
Nothing against them, just prefer power filters.

Of course then there are
other vets who say UG filter and a sponge filter, thats all you ever need
to add to a tank. The bottom line is I am going to have a tendency to
want to spend sparingly, add as little as possible and stock heavily

By "stock heavily" what do you mean? If you're putting
too many fish into your tank(s), that could well be the
source of your higher nitrates (which don't seem excessively
high to me, but could be lower). Better to move up to
a larger tank than overstock.

and I am trying
to 'learn' to know how many fish I can handle safely. I am willing to put
in more time quicker than I am more money. I really do value each fish so
I don't want to learn by death rates. But, I also pond. From there I
know there are alway those who suggest much lower stocking rates, 'to be
safe' when much higher are possible if you know what you've doing and are
willing to moniter things a little more closely.

Sorry, I know this is a long post and probably some will be tempted to say
give it 4 years and you'll get you 'fish sense'. I'm hoping I can cut
down that time with some of your wisdom.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

"4 years" ?? I killed off most of my poor little fish over
a 7 year period - never learned a darned thing - until a
favorite elderly (and original inhabitant) Cory cat started
acting weird. In trying to learn what was wrong with her
and how to help, I started learning about water chemistry
(from hobbyist friends and from books), found the aquaria
newsgroups, went from plain gravel w/ fake decorations
to heavily planted tanks.

It takes whatever time it takes, and if you're ready
to learn more now, that's cool. But don't put a
time limit on yourself. You want to do the best for
your fish and that's a great attitude.

Gail
near San Antonio TX
::hi neighbor::