Cycling

Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.
--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:58:09 GMT, "soup"
wrote:


Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.

I am the voice of "don't add chemicals if possible." I have 5 tanks
ranging from 10 to 75 gallons. I always start with 3 to 5 fish. I
also add plants because I have a ready surplus in my existing tanks.
The "cloudy" phase lasts for weeks. I always feel great relief when
the water clears. I do change water 20% twice weekly, but I do not
treat the new water except to bring the new water close to the tank
temperature. Not only do I not trust the chemicals, I distrust me to
administer them properly. I killed several fish and burned several
more adjusting the pH. That was almost 2 years ago, I never figured
what I did wrong, but it made my mind up, I am more dangerous than my
tap water is.

dick

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:58:09 GMT, "soup"
wrote:


Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.

I am the voice of "don't add chemicals if possible." I have 5 tanks
ranging from 10 to 75 gallons. I always start with 3 to 5 fish. I
also add plants because I have a ready surplus in my existing tanks.
The "cloudy" phase lasts for weeks. I always feel great relief when
the water clears. I do change water 20% twice weekly, but I do not
treat the new water except to bring the new water close to the tank
temperature. Not only do I not trust the chemicals, I distrust me to
administer them properly. I killed several fish and burned several
more adjusting the pH. That was almost 2 years ago, I never figured
what I did wrong, but it made my mind up, I am more dangerous than my
tap water is.



Here here Dick, I've gone from 20 gal to 75 to 160 over the years and never
used chemicals. And the only time I ever really lost alot of fish was the
freak summer we had over here two years ago, and when the valve on my CO2
injection went mad and crashed my pH.

When I did my 75 gal from scratch, 8 hardies in, 10 % water changes every
couple of days and that was it for about three weeks and then added the fish
slowly. I don't know how you can go wrong with it, but someone will have had
bad experience doing a 'live' cycle.

I personally think and from what I've read you are more likely to screw up,
and never get the nitrogen cycle to stabilise using chemicals over fish.

for the original poster, spot on with what happens, I don't know if you have
already read it but I suggest the Krib faq, google it.

A

soup wrote:

Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.
--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

Best bet is to use a hardy fish, use testing kits and when
ammonia, nitrite and nitrate go too high perform a water change
to lower the levels.

Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario

My apologies -- N02 (should be NITRITES), I know that N03 are NITRATES.

and I have a background in chemical and environmental engineering . . .
Mario

Mario wrote:

My apologies -- N02 (should be NITRITES), I know that N03 are NITRATES.

and I have a background in chemical and environmental engineering . . .
Mario

I consider anything over 40ppm for nitrates too high - preferable is less than
20ppm
Ammonia & Nitrites I'd say any higher than 2ppm and you want to be doing water
changes.
Obviously you eventually want ammonia and nitrites to be 0ppm.

Mario wrote:
Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario

Problem is, the toxicity of ammonia is changed by the pH so there is no
single answer. Fish tolerate NH3 much better than NH4+. And different
fish can tolerate different levels of ammonia. I generally start to
worry above 1 ppm in a pH 7 tank. However, there is no need to expose
your fish to ammonia. I would strongly recommend using AmQuel while
your tank cycles. http://www.novalek.com/korgd28.htm AmQuel makes the
ammonia non-toxic to fish but it can still be used by the bacteria.
Note that you will get weird readings on typical FW ammonia kits once
you have added the AmQuel.

For nitrite, I don't like to see it above 2 ppm, so that's where I start
thinking about a water change. Change too much water though, and you'll
prolong the cycle. Also watch your fish closely. If they start getting
lethergic and gilling hard, they are experiencing nitrite toxicity.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...
Mario wrote:
Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario

Problem is, the toxicity of ammonia is changed by the pH so there is no
single answer. Fish tolerate NH3 much better than NH4+.

Just a typo. I think you had that reversed, as NH4 (ammonium at low pH)
is not toxic and NH3 (ammonia at high pH) is very toxic.
--
www.NetMax.tk

And different
fish can tolerate different levels of ammonia. I generally start to
worry above 1 ppm in a pH 7 tank. However, there is no need to expose
your fish to ammonia. I would strongly recommend using AmQuel while
your tank cycles. http://www.novalek.com/korgd28.htm AmQuel makes the
ammonia non-toxic to fish but it can still be used by the bacteria.
Note that you will get weird readings on typical FW ammonia kits once
you have added the AmQuel.

For nitrite, I don't like to see it above 2 ppm, so that's where I
start thinking about a water change. Change too much water though, and
you'll prolong the cycle. Also watch your fish closely. If they start
getting lethergic and gilling hard, they are experiencing nitrite
toxicity.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...

Mario wrote:

Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario


Problem is, the toxicity of ammonia is changed by the pH so there is no
single answer. Fish tolerate NH3 much better than NH4+.


Just a typo. I think you had that reversed, as NH4 (ammonium at low pH)
is not toxic and NH3 (ammonia at high pH) is very toxic.

D'oh! Thanks so much for the fix!

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__