Live sand question

Hi all. This is really a different kind of question that you guys and gals are
probably used to seeing. I've seen a lot about the benefits of live sand in
marine aquaria, and of course, have live sand in my tank and in my refugium. My
question is what is the feasibility of using live sand in a freshwater garden
pond? Has anyone tried this, and if so, what were the results? I understand
that live sand in a marine tank is colonized by quite different creatures, but
it seems to me that if done right, creating a live sand bed in a garden pond
would be very beneficial to freshawater garden ponds. Any comments would be
appreciated.

"George" wrote in message
news:FgI_d.81408$r55.66832@attbi_s52...
Hi all. This is really a different kind of question that you guys and
gals are
probably used to seeing. I've seen a lot about the benefits of live sand
in
marine aquaria, and of course, have live sand in my tank and in my
refugium. My
question is what is the feasibility of using live sand in a freshwater
garden
pond? Has anyone tried this, and if so, what were the results? I
understand
that live sand in a marine tank is colonized by quite different creatures,
but
it seems to me that if done right, creating a live sand bed in a garden
pond
would be very beneficial to freshawater garden ponds. Any comments would
be
appreciated.



Well this post got me curious so I did some research on it. This is what I
found http://www.athiel.com/lib/lg-fw.html

It appears you can use the same technique for freshwater. It appears that
you can't use sand for it though. Some sort of "natural" gravel. I would
also think that the common bio-wheel or wet-dry filter would have a negating
effect on any DSB used in freshwater, since these types of filtration are
proven nitrate machines.

"Chris Gentry" wrote in message
news:XDO_d.494$fn3.72@attbi_s01...

"George" wrote in message
news:FgI_d.81408$r55.66832@attbi_s52...
Hi all. This is really a different kind of question that you guys and
gals are
probably used to seeing. I've seen a lot about the benefits of live sand
in
marine aquaria, and of course, have live sand in my tank and in my
refugium. My
question is what is the feasibility of using live sand in a freshwater
garden
pond? Has anyone tried this, and if so, what were the results? I
understand
that live sand in a marine tank is colonized by quite different creatures,
but
it seems to me that if done right, creating a live sand bed in a garden
pond
would be very beneficial to freshawater garden ponds. Any comments would
be
appreciated.



Well this post got me curious so I did some research on it. This is what I
found http://www.athiel.com/lib/lg-fw.html

It appears you can use the same technique for freshwater. It appears that
you can't use sand for it though. Some sort of "natural" gravel. I would
also think that the common bio-wheel or wet-dry filter would have a negating
effect on any DSB used in freshwater, since these types of filtration are
proven nitrate machines.


I completely agree about wet-dry filters, which is why my bioballs have all been
cleaned and my grandchildren now play with them. I have been reading about
Jaudert plenums, and it seem like it might be the way to go. And you might be
right about using gravel instead of sand. The article mentions gravel in the
range of 2-3 mm, which it pretty small, so that might work in place of coarse
sand. It will definitely be easier to install in a 1,200 gallon pond. Thanks
for the link. It helped.

"George" wrote in message
news:JRP_d.83176$r55.40732@attbi_s52...

I completely agree about wet-dry filters, which is why my bioballs have
all been
cleaned and my grandchildren now play with them. I have been reading
about
Jaudert plenums, and it seem like it might be the way to go. And you
might be
right about using gravel instead of sand. The article mentions gravel in
the
range of 2-3 mm, which it pretty small, so that might work in place of
coarse
sand. It will definitely be easier to install in a 1,200 gallon pond.
Thanks
for the link. It helped.


No Problem,
As for the plenums, I run one on my system. I've heard debate on whether or
not they can cause the tank to crash. I think a simple remedy for this, and
one I've implemented is to put a series of airline tubing inside the plenum,
use tees to take the individual pieces and combine them into one access
line. Then bury the access line behind some LR. If you ever start having
problems with your tank, then you can syphon some water from your plenum and
check that. It will tell you whether or not your plenum is causing the
problem. If so, syphon some more water off, and the vacuum created will
pull more oxygen down into your sand, thus keeping anaerobic bacteria away.

This method is described in detail somewhere. I think I learned about it on
garf.org but I'm not sure. If I had some more time I would look the link up
for you, but I need to get back to what I was doing. -Chris

I've never had any problems since changing to live sand in a fluidised bed
setup. I made two using 1.25lt PET bottles powered by small powerheads (One
a Hagen 301 and the other a Rio 600) for my 40Gal reef tank. The units just
stand in the back corners of the tank and have no maintenance problems other
than to clean the powerheads now and again. With two I have redundancy
inbuilt which came in handy when my older powerhead (5 years at least) died
last week.

Andy

"Chris Gentry" wrote in message
news:TLX_d.85516$r55.70906@attbi_s52...

"George" wrote in message
news:JRP_d.83176$r55.40732@attbi_s52...

I completely agree about wet-dry filters, which is why my bioballs have
all been
cleaned and my grandchildren now play with them. I have been reading
about
Jaudert plenums, and it seem like it might be the way to go. And you
might be
right about using gravel instead of sand. The article mentions gravel in
the
range of 2-3 mm, which it pretty small, so that might work in place of
coarse
sand. It will definitely be easier to install in a 1,200 gallon pond.
Thanks
for the link. It helped.


No Problem,
As for the plenums, I run one on my system. I've heard debate on whether
or
not they can cause the tank to crash. I think a simple remedy for this,
and
one I've implemented is to put a series of airline tubing inside the
plenum,
use tees to take the individual pieces and combine them into one access
line. Then bury the access line behind some LR. If you ever start having
problems with your tank, then you can syphon some water from your plenum
and
check that. It will tell you whether or not your plenum is causing the
problem. If so, syphon some more water off, and the vacuum created will
pull more oxygen down into your sand, thus keeping anaerobic bacteria
away.

This method is described in detail somewhere. I think I learned about it
on
garf.org but I'm not sure. If I had some more time I would look the link
up
for you, but I need to get back to what I was doing. -Chris