priming help

Just installed a 500 cu. in. priming pot for a Sequence 5800 pump.
Before turning the pump on, I flooded the line and made sure there was
water in the pump and there was water up to the top of the little dome
on the priming pot lid. When I turn the pump on the water is sucked
down a bit leaving a little air in the top of the priming pot. . As
time goes by, 10 - 15 minutes, there is considerably more air in the
priming pot now and the water level in the pot is down a couple of
inches. Is this normal? Or should the pot remain completely filled
with no air in it except around the very top surrounding the little dome?
There are two (2) 2" Tetra bottom vacuum drains feeding a 3" pipe that
goes to within 3' of the priming pot where a reducer takes the pipe down
to 2" which feeds directly into the priming pot. The outlet is at 2"
until it is reduced down to 1 1/4 " into the filters.
Thanks for your help.
W. Dale

I have found that normal on all of my pumps with primer baskets. One
way to eliminate or reduce the slight drop is to have the downstream
valves closed off,while pump is running, then shut off pump. Clean the
basket, fill up primer pot, secure lid, turn on pump and ever so
slowly open a down stream valve until you get flow, allow pump to
keep up with whats going out, and then open any other valves....Its
really not a problem as long as the pump is pulling in the water and
its not cavitating, its still moving the same amount of water, if the
pot is filled to the brim or not. That area with air in the pot is
just space left due to air in the downstream line somewhere that
accumulated once the pump was shut down......and poses no problems
whatsoever.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 15:14:02 -0600, Wilmdale
wrote:

===Just installed a 500 cu. in. priming pot for a Sequence 5800 pump.
===Before turning the pump on, I flooded the line and made sure there was
===water in the pump and there was water up to the top of the little dome
===on the priming pot lid. When I turn the pump on the water is sucked
===down a bit leaving a little air in the top of the priming pot. . As
===time goes by, 10 - 15 minutes, there is considerably more air in the
===priming pot now and the water level in the pot is down a couple of
===inches. Is this normal? Or should the pot remain completely filled
===with no air in it except around the very top surrounding the little dome?
===There are two (2) 2" Tetra bottom vacuum drains feeding a 3" pipe that
===goes to within 3' of the priming pot where a reducer takes the pipe down
===to 2" which feeds directly into the priming pot. The outlet is at 2"
===until it is reduced down to 1 1/4 " into the filters.
===Thanks for your help.
===W. Dale


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

If the leaf basket is completely full after a few minutes, but leaks down
over time something is leaking. If it immediately gets that air in it, then
the prime is not complete, and air is in a high spot in the line that can be
sucked to the leaf basket on starting the pump. If the lid of the leaf trap
is not thoroughly sealed, it will leak air. They make a grease for the
rubber ring, it is somewhat expensive but works. If there are any leaks in
pipe joints that are exposed to air, they will also leak air in. Ideally,
their should be no air in the leaf trap.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Wilmdale" wrote in message
...
Just installed a 500 cu. in. priming pot for a Sequence 5800 pump.
Before turning the pump on, I flooded the line and made sure there was
water in the pump and there was water up to the top of the little dome
on the priming pot lid. When I turn the pump on the water is sucked
down a bit leaving a little air in the top of the priming pot. . As
time goes by, 10 - 15 minutes, there is considerably more air in the
priming pot now and the water level in the pot is down a couple of
inches. Is this normal? Or should the pot remain completely filled
with no air in it except around the very top surrounding the little dome?
There are two (2) 2" Tetra bottom vacuum drains feeding a 3" pipe that
goes to within 3' of the priming pot where a reducer takes the pipe down
to 2" which feeds directly into the priming pot. The outlet is at 2"
until it is reduced down to 1 1/4 " into the filters.
Thanks for your help.
W. Dale

I sure do not have any leaks, and once the pump is running the basket
is relatively full but does drop a slight amount. I can shut it off
and it will hold its prime, and maintain the level that it was
pulling at before it was shut off. The amount mine all drop is still
well above the inlet port to the pump however. My pumps range from
12 to 18 inches above water level. The 750 and 1000 series pumps are
not self priming so its possible some water in the basket will drop
until it gets to pulling. The haywood pump I have is self priming and
its primer pot does not go down one little bit though.

One thing on the primer pots used by sewquence is its important not to
let the lid turn during the securing of the lid to pot or it can
distort the O-ring. Yet another reason for lube so it does not twist
it and distort it.

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:42:49 -0400, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

===If the leaf basket is completely full after a few minutes, but leaks down
===over time something is leaking. If it immediately gets that air in it, then
===the prime is not complete, and air is in a high spot in the line that can be
===sucked to the leaf basket on starting the pump. If the lid of the leaf trap
===is not thoroughly sealed, it will leak air. They make a grease for the
===rubber ring, it is somewhat expensive but works. If there are any leaks in
===pipe joints that are exposed to air, they will also leak air in. Ideally,
===their should be no air in the leaf trap.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

RichToyBox wrote:

If the leaf basket is completely full after a few minutes, but leaks down
over time something is leaking. If it immediately gets that air in it, then
the prime is not complete, and air is in a high spot in the line that can be
sucked to the leaf basket on starting the pump. If the lid of the leaf trap
is not thoroughly sealed, it will leak air. They make a grease for the
rubber ring, it is somewhat expensive but works. If there are any leaks in
pipe joints that are exposed to air, they will also leak air in. Ideally,
their should be no air in the leaf trap.


Thanks RTB and Roy. I think you are right about there being a leak
somewhere. I let the pump run all night last night and while there is
still good flow from the filters, there is a lot of bubbling coming up
through the media. I have attempted to go back and re-seal around the
pvc joints with primer and cement. Still the water drops down to just
above the inlet. And it sounds like there is a lot of cavitating at the
impeller. That can't be good. There is a "bleed" valve on the elbow
coming out of the pond but I flood it and it is sealed with teflon
tape. Could this still be leaking even with the tape?
So, aside from taking a hack saw to the pipe and starting over (on the
plumbing outside the pond) I am at a lose. Any other suggestions? I
thought about putting in a 1/4 inch bleed valve in the elbow at the
highest point in the line and try to bleed off the air bubbles as the
line floods. The other thing would be to cut the line and fill it up
making sure the air is out, rejoin with a flexible coupling.
Thanks for any additional suggestions. This puppy is a frustrating
little thing.
W. Dale

I have mixed thoughts about slathering on primer and glue on an
already glued joint. It may or may not help the problem. PVC cement
has no strength, it takes the actual melting or dissolving of the
joints that are coated and in the process it expands slightly. Its
next to impossible to pull any primer or glue into a joint without a
vaccum. If you could make a few wraps of electrical tape around a few
solvent welded joints, as a sort of bandaide, it may be sufficient to
stop an air leak. Do a joint and look at your output for signs of
bubbles or cavitation....if no improvement do another etc etc
et..until you hopefully find where the leak is at and it..may help
from just startating over again. I have heard of others that used a 2
part epoxy that they pack around a leaking joint and they have stated
it works and holds good, since its on a suction side where your
problem is, it should work well until you decide on a more permanent
fix.......Teflon tape or no teflon tape its still possible to get a
leak........Good luck..........


On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 10:57:36 -0600, Wilmdale
wrote:

===RichToyBox wrote:
===
===If the leaf basket is completely full after a few minutes, but leaks down
===over time something is leaking. If it immediately gets that air in it, then
===the prime is not complete, and air is in a high spot in the line that can be
===sucked to the leaf basket on starting the pump. If the lid of the leaf trap
===is not thoroughly sealed, it will leak air. They make a grease for the
===rubber ring, it is somewhat expensive but works. If there are any leaks in
===pipe joints that are exposed to air, they will also leak air in. Ideally,
===their should be no air in the leaf trap.
===
===
===Thanks RTB and Roy. I think you are right about there being a leak
===somewhere. I let the pump run all night last night and while there is
===still good flow from the filters, there is a lot of bubbling coming up
===through the media. I have attempted to go back and re-seal around the
===pvc joints with primer and cement. Still the water drops down to just
===above the inlet. And it sounds like there is a lot of cavitating at the
===impeller. That can't be good. There is a "bleed" valve on the elbow
===coming out of the pond but I flood it and it is sealed with teflon
===tape. Could this still be leaking even with the tape?
===So, aside from taking a hack saw to the pipe and starting over (on the
===plumbing outside the pond) I am at a lose. Any other suggestions? I
===thought about putting in a 1/4 inch bleed valve in the elbow at the
===highest point in the line and try to bleed off the air bubbles as the
===line floods. The other thing would be to cut the line and fill it up
===making sure the air is out, rejoin with a flexible coupling.
===Thanks for any additional suggestions. This puppy is a frustrating
===little thing.
===W. Dale


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Using the electrical tape that Roy mentions will help to identify the
location. Once you have the right joint identified, then they make a
plumbing repair tape that looks like heavy electrical tape. I have used it
and it works. You might remake the joint with the teflon tape, and see if
that is the location, since that is easy.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Roy" wrote in message
...
I have mixed thoughts about slathering on primer and glue on an
already glued joint. It may or may not help the problem. PVC cement
has no strength, it takes the actual melting or dissolving of the
joints that are coated and in the process it expands slightly. Its
next to impossible to pull any primer or glue into a joint without a
vaccum. If you could make a few wraps of electrical tape around a few
solvent welded joints, as a sort of bandaide, it may be sufficient to
stop an air leak. Do a joint and look at your output for signs of
bubbles or cavitation....if no improvement do another etc etc
et..until you hopefully find where the leak is at and it..may help
from just startating over again. I have heard of others that used a 2
part epoxy that they pack around a leaking joint and they have stated
it works and holds good, since its on a suction side where your
problem is, it should work well until you decide on a more permanent
fix.......Teflon tape or no teflon tape its still possible to get a
leak........Good luck..........


On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 10:57:36 -0600, Wilmdale
wrote:

===RichToyBox wrote:
===
===If the leaf basket is completely full after a few minutes, but leaks
down
===over time something is leaking. If it immediately gets that air in
it, then
===the prime is not complete, and air is in a high spot in the line
that can be
===sucked to the leaf basket on starting the pump. If the lid of the
leaf trap
===is not thoroughly sealed, it will leak air. They make a grease for
the
===rubber ring, it is somewhat expensive but works. If there are any
leaks in
===pipe joints that are exposed to air, they will also leak air in.
Ideally,
===their should be no air in the leaf trap.
===
===
===Thanks RTB and Roy. I think you are right about there being a leak
===somewhere. I let the pump run all night last night and while there
is
===still good flow from the filters, there is a lot of bubbling coming
up
===through the media. I have attempted to go back and re-seal around
the
===pvc joints with primer and cement. Still the water drops down to
just
===above the inlet. And it sounds like there is a lot of cavitating at
the
===impeller. That can't be good. There is a "bleed" valve on the elbow
===coming out of the pond but I flood it and it is sealed with teflon
===tape. Could this still be leaking even with the tape?
===So, aside from taking a hack saw to the pipe and starting over (on
the
===plumbing outside the pond) I am at a lose. Any other suggestions? I
===thought about putting in a 1/4 inch bleed valve in the elbow at the
===highest point in the line and try to bleed off the air bubbles as the
===line floods. The other thing would be to cut the line and fill it up
===making sure the air is out, rejoin with a flexible coupling.
===Thanks for any additional suggestions. This puppy is a frustrating
===little thing.
===W. Dale


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

RichToyBox wrote:

Using the electrical tape that Roy mentions will help to identify the
location. Once you have the right joint identified, then they make a
plumbing repair tape that looks like heavy electrical tape. I have used it
and it works. You might remake the joint with the teflon tape, and see if
that is the location, since that is easy.


I will give that a try! As I was preparing to take the hack to it all,
I heard this noise, got down close to the joint, and sure enough, it was
sucking air! No water drips because of the suction, but plenty of air.
So, I put on some silicon. No more sucking air leak noise! Good stuff
that silicon. So, I will do some taping, and when I find more leaks
cause I am sure there are, I will apply the silicon. Stopping up that
one leak has kept the water level in the priming pot higher and my
skimmer has kicked in and started working. I think the tape and silicon
will be a much easier fix than cutting up the whole thing and starting over.
Moral of the story; glue it right (with sufficient glue and primer) the
FIRST time. :-D
Thanks for your help, Roy and RTB.
W. Dale

RichToyBox wrote:

Using the electrical tape that Roy mentions will help to identify the
location. Once you have the right joint identified, then they make a
plumbing repair tape that looks like heavy electrical tape. I have used it
and it works. You might remake the joint with the teflon tape, and see if
that is the location, since that is easy.


Gentlemen,
THANK YOU. The priming pot is full and the flow is great and all the
leaks seem to be gone! Your suggestions about the electrical tape
worked very well. I am off to Lowes this AM to get some of the plumbing
repair tape you mentioned, RTB, to replace the electrical tape and
finally put this little project to bed.
Have a great week and I will get pictures posted soon of how it is all
turing out.
W. Dale

RichToyBox wrote:

Using the electrical tape that Roy mentions will help to identify the
location. Once you have the right joint identified, then they make a
plumbing repair tape that looks like heavy electrical tape. I have used it
and it works. You might remake the joint with the teflon tape, and see if
that is the location, since that is easy.


Hi RTB,
Got the repair tape. Says it is for 'temporary repairs only'. I was
wondering if caulking might work as well and last longer? Or should I
look for something like Gorilla Glue for a permanent solution.
Thanks.
W. Dale