The Barr approach and Red Brush Algae...

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could please have some advise...

I have recently started NPK fertilizing following what I understood from the
Barr approach... I use PMDD made from the receipe on the Krib, but with the
australian equivilent trace element mix and I dose NPK based on what the
tank would need according to the Barr method... To the PMDD recipe, I also
add 2x250mg calcium tabs as my water does not have enough and my Rotala
Macranda dies off without it.

I started the Barr method two weeks ago and my tank is blooming with
red-brush algae on all the dying leaves and some not so dying leaves...

I read up on red-brush algae on the Krib and I couldn't find a definitive
answer... One article says that something is missing, one says that I have
too much of something... I have done all my tests and found the nitrate is
up to 10ppm (probably because of my discus feeding regime as they are young)
phosphate is .1ppm and Fe is non existant, which I am hoping is the
problem...

To start with, dosing PMDD at 1.5ml in my 50gal aquarium had a steady ramp
up of Fe to .04ppm, which my tank flourished at ( this was prior to the Barr
method, as I was still chasing down Potassium Nitrate and Phosphate), my
amazon sword flowered and everything was going great, then I noticed some
green spot algae on the sword, which I had previously discovered was a lack
of Phosphate.

I did the 50% water change and dosed NPK as per the Barr method, a week
later another 50% water change and then again with the NPK, then it
happened, it was almost over-night that the red-brush algae appeared, on the
hair grass, the sword, aponogeton and the rotala walluchi.

I am still dosing PMDD at 1.5ml a day and my Fe is remaining at 0.0ppm, but
i think i can attribute this to my amazon sword babies... there are about
20 of them on one flower stem that have roots which I think are sucking all
the Fe out of the water...? does this sound right? I read at greg watson
that if you dosed flourish at 1 tablespoon then you should does PMDD at 1.25
tablespoons, which appears to be in contradiction to the Krib, which says up
to 1/6ml per day for each 10 gallons... So if I followed the krib, I would
does at 5/6ml per day or greg watson would be 6.25mls every other day as I
was dosing flourish at 5ml every second day...

I have added some Fe seperately just to get my Fe levels up, but I'm
starting to think that this was not a good idea as the dosing of PMDD is
designed to bring everything into equilibrium and I have just ruined it by
adding Fe seperately.

Can someone please offer some advise with my problem?

thanks in advance.

Justin.

Tank specs:
200 litre (50 gallon)
MH lighting on 10hrs a day (was on 11 hours but dropped back when algae
appeared)
CO2 pressurized on PH controller 30ppm
KH 4
GH 1
Nitrate currently 10ppm but is usuall 5ppm
Phosphate 0.1ppm
Fe currently .2ppm after manually adding some.

If you are absolutely and positively certain your co2 is at 30ppm then do
this:

Leave your Nitrates where they are. They're safe up until about 20ppm.
Up your PO4 to 1-3ppm
Dose more Iron and traces.
--
Kind Regards
Cameron

On 2005-11-06, Justin wrote:
Nitrate currently 10ppm but is usuall 5ppm


You may have excessive nitrates relative to your other nutrients...

http://tinyurl.com/7zyye

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

js1 wrote:
On 2005-11-06, Justin wrote:
Nitrate currently 10ppm but is usuall 5ppm


You may have excessive nitrates relative to your other nutrients...

http://tinyurl.com/7zyye

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

That is not it. Excess nitrates do not cause algae if the other
parameters are in good ranges.
I've attempted to induce algae and even at over 100pm of NO3, no algae
was ever induced in repeated experiments.

It's CO2 and CO2 and CO2.

Add more till the BBA stops growing.
EI simply isolated the and provided enough nutrients for the plants and
the light is fine so all that's left is the CO2.

pH/KH measurements cause problems for folks.
I use that as a starting point, then you add progressively more CO2
till no positive impact is achieved by adding more CO2.

This must be done ___slowly__.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

Thanks for all the help folks!

Prior to reading Tom Barr's post, I did a 50% water change, removed all the
affected leaves (as per advise from the krib) and dosed 5ml of my traces. I
have since had to dose 5ml of my traces 2 days later as Fe levels have
dropped. after my partial water change last night of 40 litres, I did full
tests and my Phosphate has gone down .05, Nitrate is still 10mg/l and there
has been no further growth on the algae and the plants are looking a lot
healthier.

I have now increased my CO2 levels, my PH probe was slightly off
calibration, so my CO2 levels were at 14ppm, not 30 as i thought, so this
has also been adjusted - Thanks Tom for the heads up.

As for my PMDD, it appears that 5ml every couple of days is going to be the
way to go, not 1.5ml every day as per instructions on the Krib. I am
concerned with the Fe content in my trace element mix though as it say FE as
chelater, not Fe... I know there have been many, what you could almost call
arguments on the Krib re chelated iron, do I have to worry about this?

Once again all, thank you, you have all saved my BBA problem over night.

justin.

wrote in message
ups.com...

js1 wrote:
On 2005-11-06, Justin wrote:
Nitrate currently 10ppm but is usuall 5ppm


You may have excessive nitrates relative to your other nutrients...

http://tinyurl.com/7zyye

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

That is not it. Excess nitrates do not cause algae if the other
parameters are in good ranges.
I've attempted to induce algae and even at over 100pm of NO3, no algae
was ever induced in repeated experiments.

It's CO2 and CO2 and CO2.

Add more till the BBA stops growing.
EI simply isolated the and provided enough nutrients for the plants and
the light is fine so all that's left is the CO2.

pH/KH measurements cause problems for folks.
I use that as a starting point, then you add progressively more CO2
till no positive impact is achieved by adding more CO2.

This must be done ___slowly__.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
ups.com...

js1 wrote:
On 2005-11-06, Justin wrote:
Nitrate currently 10ppm but is usuall 5ppm


You may have excessive nitrates relative to your other nutrients...

http://tinyurl.com/7zyye

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

That is not it. Excess nitrates do not cause algae if the other
parameters are in good ranges.
I've attempted to induce algae and even at over 100pm of NO3, no algae
was ever induced in repeated experiments.

It's CO2 and CO2 and CO2.

Add more till the BBA stops growing.
EI simply isolated the and provided enough nutrients for the plants and
the light is fine so all that's left is the CO2.

pH/KH measurements cause problems for folks.
I use that as a starting point, then you add progressively more CO2
till no positive impact is achieved by adding more CO2.

This must be done ___slowly__.

Hello.I read this article of link above ane there is written the mg
concentration should be 45 ppm.
Is this true ????

I need good information becauce i need to now how to make good water for
pplants with only ro water.
And Ca to mg should be as 4to 1! How big should be then ca concentration
when we have 45 ppm of mg.

My friend say that!!!
"
Make soft water using ro.You need to have gh and kh 0 !
And then add to this water mgso4.. Add 5ppm Mg and that give you 1 Gh.
And then add to this water
And then add to this water

I want add to ro-water I want too add to ro-water k2co3.That will be 15ppm
and 1,5 Kh.
I want too add to ro-water CaCo3.That will be 4 Gh and 3,5 Kh.
That will be 5ppm mg and 15 ppm K and aproXimetly 5 Kh and 5 Gh.

What do you think?

"

Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
ups.com...

js1 wrote:
On 2005-11-06, Justin wrote:
Nitrate currently 10ppm but is usuall 5ppm


You may have excessive nitrates relative to your other nutrients...

http://tinyurl.com/7zyye

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

That is not it. Excess nitrates do not cause algae if the other
parameters are in good ranges.
I've attempted to induce algae and even at over 100pm of NO3, no algae
was ever induced in repeated experiments.

It's CO2 and CO2 and CO2.

Add more till the BBA stops growing.
EI simply isolated the and provided enough nutrients for the plants and
the light is fine so all that's left is the CO2.

pH/KH measurements cause problems for folks.
I use that as a starting point, then you add progressively more CO2
till no positive impact is achieved by adding more CO2.

This must be done ___slowly__.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Hello.I read this article of link above ane there is written the mg
concentration should be 45 ppm.
Is this true ????

I need good information becauce i need to now how to make good water for
pplants with only ro water.
And Ca to mg should be as 4to 1! How big should be then ca concentration
when we have 45 ppm of mg.

My friend say that!!!
"
Make soft water using ro.You need to have gh and kh 0 !
And then add to this water mgso4.. Add 5ppm Mg and that give you 1 Gh.
And then add to this water k2co3..Add 15ppm K and that give you 1,5 Kh.
And then add to this water CaCo3..Add to reach additionaly 4 Gh and 3,5 Kh.


That will be 5ppm mg and 15 ppm K and aproXimetly 5 Kh and 5 Gh.

What do you think?