Help with inherited reef tank

A friend of mine set up a very nice 90 gal. reef system, populated it,
then gradually got so busy traveling for business, the system died. He
made an effort to save the live rock by putting it in an
unlit-but-aerated Rubbermaid can. Naturally everything died but the
bacteria in the rock.

After a few months, he put the rock back in the tank, and there
everything sat for more months, growing slime algae, etc...

Two weeks ago, he realized that about 200 of his closest friends were
coming over for his 10th Annual Christmas Caroling Party, and he wanted
the tank behind the bar in the basement to be more, ummm, attractive. So
he called an Aquarium maintenance service and got a quote for getting
the tank ship-shape plus monthly maintenance, then emailed me and said
he'd rather give the money to me, if I were interested.

Since I'm at a point where my living arrangements are subject to change
on short notice and I can't really have a tank of my own, and couldn't
afford the top-notch equipment he's got on his even if I did... well,
for me it's an opportunity to pursure a hobby of mine at a level I
couldn't afford, at someone else's expense!

So I said, "Sure!"

The main problem here was the very short deadline. It had me doing
things I wouldn't ordinarily do. (If there's a drawback to pursuing your
hobby at someone else's expense, it's that you have to keep in mind that
you're not the boss!) But my friend's a very reasonable fellow and he's
allowed me to do pretty much as I please, within certain widely-placed
guidelines. But the damn deadline...

Long story short, The Christmas Party was Saturday night, the tank
looked marvelous - crystal-clear with happy-looking fish and critters,
but now I've got animals in a tank with water chemistry that's not quite
right.

Temp. 79
Salinity 1.019
PH 7.9
Ammonia 0

Haven't tested for Nitrite/Nitrate yet.

The animals:

4 Green Chromis
2 Clarkii Clowns
2 Yellowtail Blue Damsels
1 Coral Beauty (medium)
1 Yellow Tang (small)
2 Cleaner Shrimp
6 Blue Leg Hermits

The tank is devoid of algae at this point, and there is no substrate.
Just the old rock that's nothing more than base rock now, with just the
bacteria living in it. I plan to add more live rock to re-seed the tank
with algaes and other micro-critters, plus about a half-inch of
aragonite toward the front of the tank for those that like to forage on
the bottom.

So, what are your suggestions for getting the water chemistry right?
Bring the PH up first? How best to do that? Add the aragonite *first*,
as a buffer? There's a kalkwasser generator in the cabinet that's yet to
be brought online...

I'll be doing more-frequent-than-usual water changes for a time, maybe
10 percent a week for the next few weeks, and I'll gradually raise the
salinity to 1.021 that way.

But first, I await your wisdom.

My humble thanks,

--Charlie Henderson

Bring the SG/Salinity up first, this should improve the PH. You'll need to
do it slowly, ie. 1/1000 point per day over a few days. Not sure what the
conventional wisdom dictates regarding the final salinity level in your part
of the world; your LFS should be able to advise on their conditions as a
guideline. My tank stays at about 1.024.

Once the Salinity is good you can focus on a good buffer if needed, I use
Tropic Marin triple buffer which costs about 11 British Pounds or about U$19
at present exch. rates. You'll need a test kit to measure the calcium and
alkalinity/hardness. Again you need to make smallish adjustments here and
adjust one with consideration to the other.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Chris


"Charles Henderson" wrote in message
...

Temp. 79
Salinity 1.019
PH 7.9
Ammonia 0

So, what are your suggestions for getting the water chemistry right?
Bring the PH up first? How best to do that? Add the aragonite *first*,
as a buffer? There's a kalkwasser generator in the cabinet that's yet to
be brought online...

In article ,
"Chris Taylor" wrote:

Bring the SG/Salinity up first, this should improve the PH. You'll need to
do it slowly, ie. 1/1000 point per day over a few days. Not sure what the
conventional wisdom dictates regarding the final salinity level in your part
of the world; your LFS should be able to advise on their conditions as a
guideline. My tank stays at about 1.024.

Thanks, Chris. I didn't realize I was aiming too low, salinity-wise.

Once the Salinity is good you can focus on a good buffer if needed, I use
Tropic Marin triple buffer which costs about 11 British Pounds or about U$19
at present exch. rates. You'll need a test kit to measure the calcium and
alkalinity/hardness. Again you need to make smallish adjustments here and
adjust one with consideration to the other.

Does live sand act as a PH buffer, or is that only crushed coral that
does that?

Thanks again,

--Charlie Henderson

Does live sand act as a PH buffer, or is that only crushed coral that does
that?

Honest answer:- I don't know. I use crushed coral. Many on this NG use Live
Sand and would be better placed to advise.

Comments?


"Charles Henderson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris Taylor" wrote:

Does live sand act as a PH buffer, or is that only crushed coral that
does that?

Does live sand act as a PH buffer, or is that only crushed coral that
does that?

they both could, however neither really do.

to get good buffering out of either your tank ph has to be LOW, you can search
groups.google.com for past discussions(look for one from boomer.) but i think for real
buffering the ph had to be in the low 7's. if your tank ph is that low, you have other
issues besides CC or sand.


--
Richard Reynolds

Charlie,

It doesn't sound as if you are too far away from where you need to be.
See more below...

Charles Henderson wrote:
The main problem here was the very short deadline. It had me doing
things I wouldn't ordinarily do. (If there's a drawback to pursuing your
hobby at someone else's expense, it's that you have to keep in mind that
you're not the boss!) But my friend's a very reasonable fellow and he's
allowed me to do pretty much as I please, within certain widely-placed
guidelines. But the damn deadline...

Keep a close eye on the A/N/N readings. Two weeks isn't really enough
time for a tank to properly cycle, and you will likely see at least a
small cycle. If you start to get Ammonia/Nitrite readings ... do water
changes.

Long story short, The Christmas Party was Saturday night, the tank
looked marvelous - crystal-clear with happy-looking fish and critters,
but now I've got animals in a tank with water chemistry that's not quite
right.

Temp. 79
Salinity 1.019
PH 7.9
Ammonia 0

Haven't tested for Nitrite/Nitrate yet.

The animals:

4 Green Chromis
2 Clarkii Clowns
2 Yellowtail Blue Damsels
1 Coral Beauty (medium)
1 Yellow Tang (small)
2 Cleaner Shrimp
6 Blue Leg Hermits

The tank is devoid of algae at this point, and there is no substrate.
Just the old rock that's nothing more than base rock now, with just the
bacteria living in it. I plan to add more live rock to re-seed the tank
with algaes and other micro-critters, plus about a half-inch of
aragonite toward the front of the tank for those that like to forage on
the bottom.

I wouldn't put any algaes in the display tank. They can become very
invasive and hard to control. If you add more LR, be sure that it is
fully cured before adding, or again, you'll spark a cycle.

So, what are your suggestions for getting the water chemistry right?
Bring the PH up first? How best to do that? Add the aragonite *first*,
as a buffer? There's a kalkwasser generator in the cabinet that's yet to
be brought online...

I wouldn't mess with the chemistry via additives. The pH is a bit low,
but not dangerously. The salinity is low, but where you want it depends
on whether you're looking at a reef tank, or fish-only. Kalkwasser is a
great mechanism to maintain calcium, alk, & pH.

I'll be doing more-frequent-than-usual water changes for a time, maybe
10 percent a week for the next few weeks, and I'll gradually raise the
salinity to 1.021 that way.

If you're going to do fish-only, I'd gradually (over the course of a
couple weeks), raise the salinity to 1.023. If you're aiming for a
*reef* tank, you should be at 1.025 - 1.026. Also, if you'll be keeping
mobile invertebrates (snails, crabs, etc.), then you'll need to be
around 1.025. The *key* is raising it slowly.

After you wait out any potential cycle, and do a couple water changes to
bring your parameters in check, you might want to think about beefing up
your cleaner crew considerably - a bunch of different snails, maybe a
brittle or serpent star, etc.

Here is a link to my personal site, I have quite a few reference/setup
articles on he

http://home.comcast.net/~76fxe/

Also, here is the reef forum/commmunity that I run - you are welcome to
visit any time - lots of great information and helpful members:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com

Take it easy,
Teri

In article ,
Teri G wrote:

Charlie,

It doesn't sound as if you are too far away from where you need to be.
See more below...

Thanks for your comments, Teri. You've helped put things in clearer
perspective...

Keep a close eye on the A/N/N readings. Two weeks isn't really enough
time for a tank to properly cycle, and you will likely see at least a
small cycle. If you start to get Ammonia/Nitrite readings ... do water
changes.

Yes, I thought that ammonia testing at zero so soon was a bit curious. I
guess I've yet to see the spike. Will test every day for awhile.

I wouldn't put any algaes in the display tank. They can become very
invasive and hard to control. If you add more LR, be sure that it is
fully cured before adding, or again, you'll spark a cycle.

We're aiming for a reef tank, so I'd like to see some coraline algae in
there, if only to give the Coral Beauty something to nibble on. He
hasn't been eating much (if any) of the flake or frozen I've been
feeding.

I wouldn't mess with the chemistry via additives. The pH is a bit low,
but not dangerously. The salinity is low, but where you want it depends
on whether you're looking at a reef tank, or fish-only. Kalkwasser is a
great mechanism to maintain calcium, alk, & pH.

Will kalkwasser lower alkalinity and raise PH?

If you're going to do fish-only, I'd gradually (over the course of a
couple weeks), raise the salinity to 1.023. If you're aiming for a
*reef* tank, you should be at 1.025 - 1.026. Also, if you'll be keeping
mobile invertebrates (snails, crabs, etc.), then you'll need to be
around 1.025. The *key* is raising it slowly.

That high, eh? For some reason I thought I was aiming for 1.021. Thanks
for pointing that out.

Can I just remove some tank water, say a gallon, add a bit of salt and
mix well, then return it to the tank? Via the sump, perhaps? A little
bit per day...?

After you wait out any potential cycle, and do a couple water changes to
bring your parameters in check, you might want to think about beefing up
your cleaner crew considerably - a bunch of different snails, maybe a
brittle or serpent star, etc.

Should I put in some live sand first?

Here is a link to my personal site, I have quite a few reference/setup
articles on he

http://home.comcast.net/~76fxe/

Also, here is the reef forum/commmunity that I run - you are welcome to
visit any time - lots of great information and helpful members:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com

Thanks, I'll be there soon!

--Charlie Henderson

Keep a close eye on the A/N/N readings. Two weeks isn't really enough
time for a tank to properly cycle, and you will likely see at least a
small cycle. If you start to get Ammonia/Nitrite readings ... do water
changes.

Yes, I thought that ammonia testing at zero so soon was a bit curious. I
guess I've yet to see the spike. Will test every day for awhile.

OTOH

from what you have posted, this tank is well past cycled, no need to even worry about it.

We're aiming for a reef tank, so I'd like to see some coraline algae in
there, if only to give the Coral Beauty something to nibble on. He
hasn't been eating much (if any) of the flake or frozen I've been
feeding.

try nori, its dead so no worries about it spreading.

Will kalkwasser lower alkalinity and raise PH?

it will raise both, how far depends on how much you add, IMO start adding it now. assuming
the "kalkwasser generator" works

Can I just remove some tank water, say a gallon, add a bit of salt and
mix well, then return it to the tank? Via the sump, perhaps? A little
bit per day...?

yep thatll work fine. 1 gallon at 1.025 2x will start to make a dent.

After you wait out any potential cycle, and do a couple water changes to
bring your parameters in check, you might want to think about beefing up
your cleaner crew considerably - a bunch of different snails, maybe a
brittle or serpent star, etc.

i'd skip starfish unless its part of the "guidelines"

Should I put in some live sand first?

one or the other, if you add the LS slowly over time, you will not disturb much.




--
Richard Reynolds

Just top off your tank's evaporation with pre-mixed sal****er. It will
gradually raise your salinity quite easily. Keep testing the water to make sure
you don't over do it.

Marc


Charles Henderson wrote:

Can I just remove some tank water, say a gallon, add a bit of salt and
mix well, then return it to the tank? Via the sump, perhaps? A little
bit per day...?


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

Charlie,

I think everyone else pretty much answered your questions - just to
reiterate a couple things... (below):


We're aiming for a reef tank, so I'd like to see some coraline algae in
there, if only to give the Coral Beauty something to nibble on. He
hasn't been eating much (if any) of the flake or frozen I've been
feeding.

Okay, coraline algae is a different ballgame. When ppl say *add algae*
- I think of macro algaes, usually Caulerpas. These you wouldn't want
in your display. Coraline is a solid encrusting algae (what gives LR
it's "purple" color), and no fish that I am aware of, will eat it.

Try some live or frozen brine or frozen mysis for the C. Beauty - see if
it will eat that.

Will kalkwasser lower alkalinity and raise PH?

Kalkwasser is a naturally balanced additive, and will raise both calcium
and alk. It also has an extremely high pH, and will raise that as well.

That high, eh? For some reason I thought I was aiming for 1.021. Thanks
for pointing that out.

A good article:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../1/default.asp

In summary, 1.025 is the closest to the natural salinity of the reef
where most of our critters come from.

Can I just remove some tank water, say a gallon, add a bit of salt and
mix well, then return it to the tank? Via the sump, perhaps? A little
bit per day...?

You could ... what most ppl do to raise salinity is simply use sal****er
as topoff water (for evap), instead of fresh water. Another method is
to simply use a higher strength salinity water for you water changes.


After you wait out any potential cycle, and do a couple water changes to
bring your parameters in check, you might want to think about beefing up
your cleaner crew considerably - a bunch of different snails, maybe a
brittle or serpent star, etc.


Should I put in some live sand first?

If you're going to be adding LS to the tank, I would do this before you
do anything else.



HTH!!
Teri
http://www.reefsanctuary.com