Running pipes for Fluval 404 in an S shape ...

I'm gonna be running some custom pipe work in my 55G to provide undergravel
jets. This means I have to make a transition between the pipes supplied
with my Fluval 404 and my 1/2 PVC pipes. I would prefer to make this
transition inside the stand, not the fish tank (long story why). So here's
my question. The way the pipes would be arranged is that the pipe would
form a S on it's side (meaning it would leave the filter at a certain
height, then bend to go a couple inches lower, take the transition, and then
head up to the tank). I'm wondering if such a scenario would work, since
now I have spots where air or water might get trapped. Are canister filters
designed to work properly only if the pipes go straight up to the tank.

I hope my explanation makes sense ... but if not, here's a bad picture of
what I mean:

----- TANK
|
| P
| I
-------- | P
| | | E
----- | |
| | | |
| | -----
-----
FILTER

Thank you for any feedback,
Harry

P.S. I'm wondering if the filter itself will work, as well as, if the
priming feature will work, since I've heard it's supposed to work OK if the
output pipe is located above water level (which it is). Thanks again.




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I'm not positive about the fluval, but most canister filters should work
fine once you've got all the air out of the line. Even with the "S", you're
just running a siphon, so as long as the "out" end of the feed tube (from
the tank to the filter) is lower than the surface of the water, you should
be OK.

You might be introducing back pressure problems though - make sure the
fluval can operate with only a 1/2" outflow or you might end up cooking
impellers from too mauch back pressure (has the same effect as running the
filter when its badly clogged)...

--JD

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
I'm gonna be running some custom pipe work in my 55G to provide
undergravel
jets. This means I have to make a transition between the pipes supplied
with my Fluval 404 and my 1/2 PVC pipes. I would prefer to make this
transition inside the stand, not the fish tank (long story why). So
here's
my question. The way the pipes would be arranged is that the pipe would
form a S on it's side (meaning it would leave the filter at a certain
height, then bend to go a couple inches lower, take the transition, and
then
head up to the tank). I'm wondering if such a scenario would work, since
now I have spots where air or water might get trapped. Are canister
filters
designed to work properly only if the pipes go straight up to the tank.

I hope my explanation makes sense ... but if not, here's a bad picture of
what I mean:

----- TANK
|
| P
| I
-------- | P
| | | E
----- | |
| | | |
| | -----
-----
FILTER

Thank you for any feedback,
Harry

P.S. I'm wondering if the filter itself will work, as well as, if the
priming feature will work, since I've heard it's supposed to work OK if
the
output pipe is located above water level (which it is). Thanks again.




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I have many Fluvals running as described (mostly 304 & 404s). For
flexibility, I sometimes do not cut the corrugated hose and simply grab
another hose, so consequently, my hoses are twice as long as they should
be, and often sag down to the floor before going up to the tank. Other
than the first initial prime, I have not noticed that it has caused me
any grief. Any air entrapment tends to quickly get blown out once the
filter is running. I don't usually use the priming mechanism, and when I
have, I have had mixed results (mostly bad). Because it's a work
environment, I need to get the filter up & running quickly, so I have a
few unpowered methods I use to do the initial prime, (gravity start the
drain into a pail with the outlet end or with another hose connected at
the filter outlet, or direct a water hose outlet at the filter outlet in
the tank, etc). Subsequent primes are achieved by the filter being full
of water when re-connected, or being completely empty (partially full
will usually cause me grief). hth

NetMax

"j.duprie" wrote in message
...
I'm not positive about the fluval, but most canister filters should
work
fine once you've got all the air out of the line. Even with the "S",
you're
just running a siphon, so as long as the "out" end of the feed tube
(from
the tank to the filter) is lower than the surface of the water, you
should
be OK.

You might be introducing back pressure problems though - make sure the
fluval can operate with only a 1/2" outflow or you might end up cooking
impellers from too mauch back pressure (has the same effect as running
the
filter when its badly clogged)...

--JD

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
I'm gonna be running some custom pipe work in my 55G to provide
undergravel
jets. This means I have to make a transition between the pipes
supplied
with my Fluval 404 and my 1/2 PVC pipes. I would prefer to make this
transition inside the stand, not the fish tank (long story why). So
here's
my question. The way the pipes would be arranged is that the pipe
would
form a S on it's side (meaning it would leave the filter at a certain
height, then bend to go a couple inches lower, take the transition,
and
then
head up to the tank). I'm wondering if such a scenario would work,
since
now I have spots where air or water might get trapped. Are canister
filters
designed to work properly only if the pipes go straight up to the
tank.

I hope my explanation makes sense ... but if not, here's a bad
picture of
what I mean:

----- TANK
|
| P
| I
-------- | P
| | | E
----- | |
| | | |
| | -----
-----
FILTER

Thank you for any feedback,
Harry

P.S. I'm wondering if the filter itself will work, as well as, if
the
priming feature will work, since I've heard it's supposed to work OK
if
the
output pipe is located above water level (which it is). Thanks
again.




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"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..
I have many Fluvals running as described (mostly 304 & 404s). For
flexibility, I sometimes do not cut the corrugated hose and simply grab
another hose, so consequently, my hoses are twice as long as they should
be, and often sag down to the floor before going up to the tank. Other
than the first initial prime, I have not noticed that it has caused me
any grief. Any air entrapment tends to quickly get blown out once the
filter is running. I don't usually use the priming mechanism, and when I
have, I have had mixed results (mostly bad). Because it's a work
environment, I need to get the filter up & running quickly, so I have a
few unpowered methods I use to do the initial prime, (gravity start the
drain into a pail with the outlet end or with another hose connected at
the filter outlet, or direct a water hose outlet at the filter outlet in
the tank, etc). Subsequent primes are achieved by the filter being full
of water when re-connected, or being completely empty (partially full
will usually cause me grief). hth

NetMax

Just the answer I was looking for. I got one quick question though. Do you
keep your output hose above water level? Do you find it makes a difference
in the priming methods that you use?

Thanks,
Harry




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"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..
I have many Fluvals running as described (mostly 304 & 404s). For
flexibility, I sometimes do not cut the corrugated hose and simply
grab
another hose, so consequently, my hoses are twice as long as they
should
be, and often sag down to the floor before going up to the tank.
Other
than the first initial prime, I have not noticed that it has caused
me
any grief. Any air entrapment tends to quickly get blown out once
the
filter is running. I don't usually use the priming mechanism, and
when I
have, I have had mixed results (mostly bad). Because it's a work
environment, I need to get the filter up & running quickly, so I have
a
few unpowered methods I use to do the initial prime, (gravity start
the
drain into a pail with the outlet end or with another hose connected
at
the filter outlet, or direct a water hose outlet at the filter outlet
in
the tank, etc). Subsequent primes are achieved by the filter being
full
of water when re-connected, or being completely empty (partially full
will usually cause me grief). hth

NetMax

Just the answer I was looking for. I got one quick question though.
Do you
keep your output hose above water level? Do you find it makes a
difference
in the priming methods that you use?

Thanks,
Harry

I usually keep my output hose about 2" below the water surface. For
priming, not really, but I'm sure it could. If you were to start the
entire system dry, then having the outlet above water allows the water to
flow into the filter with less back pressure. When I start one up
completely dry, I put the outlet in a 5g pail and give it a strong suck.
It takes a minute or so to get a water flow which is completely free of
air bubbles, then I close the shut-off valve, install the outlet in the
tank, open the shutoff valve and plug in the filter. Never fails and it
works for every canister, especially useful if you have overlong hoses
with lots of curves.

If I don't have good access to the tank to be installing the outlet
after, I point a garden hose's spray at the outlet (above or below the
waterline). When bubbles stop coming out the intake, you're ready to
plug the filter in (the Fluval's hoses are both at the top of the filter,
so all filter air travels up to the hoses, and what direction you are
pushing the water does not matter for priming without power).

I only really need to do a fresh start maybe once a month though. The
rest of the time, it's just replacing the canister full of water and
plugging it back in. hth

NetMax